Sakuragi's Warrior Guide

[myriverse]

On live, it was Velious +10 months.

[Droog007]

Good read, thanks for your efforts.

Are 2 hand weapons at all viable for threat generation? I used a Throneblade of the Ykesha for a while with my ranger on live, and it always seemed like a threat MONSTER. This is pure 12 year old anecdote, but it felt like it procced waay more often than other weapons - if I read the guide correctly, proc chances are static across weapons?

Seems like a fat, slow 2hander with a proc should be win... how does the math bear that out?

edit:

Originally Posted by Splorf22

...it may take a few repetitions to get the rogue out of his chemically induced Netflix trance.

This made me lol@work

[Droog007]

Originally Posted by Droog007 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A valid (if poorly worded) question about 2h threat generation.

Maybe the 2h ratios just aren't high enough to compete, and/or the MH bonus is the same for 2h'ers (when does this change?).

I'm still curious where TBoY ranks among (or how far beneath) popular warrior weaponry in terms of threat potential.

[baalzy]

Originally Posted by Droog007 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe the 2h ratios just aren't high enough to compete, and/or the MH bonus is the same for 2h'ers (when does this change?).

I'm still curious where TBoY ranks among (or how far beneath) popular warrior weaponry in terms of threat potential.

Velious released December 2000, the 2handed change happened Oct 8th 2001. So 11 months after Veliious.

Looking at current weapons the warrior epic (in 2h mode) has the best ratio of any 2hander at 36/41.
The best ratio set of 1h weapons for a war would be sword of the shissar and razor fang of xygoz (both 14/23).

According to the link within this thread: http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...e+bonus&page=3 the current damage bonus for 2handed weapons 50+ is level-7/3 so at lvl 60 the two-handed damage bonus would be 60-7/3 = 17.6, going to round down and call it 17.

1hand damage bonus (just for people who don't know already) is level - 25 / 3, so at 60 it is 60-25/3 = 11.66. (since its well established its 11 at 60 I know I can round down to 11).

Originally Posted by Sakuragi's Warrior Guide

As a warrior, your primary means of generating threat is by beating on your target monster. Every time you swing your weapon, hit or miss, you will generate WeaponDamage+DamageBonus aggro.

So for the best two-handed ratio ignoring procs you're looking at 36+17 = 53 threat per hit

Best one hander ignoring procs looking at 14+11=25 threat per hit on the main hand.

The lowest common denominator between the two delays (41 for the 2h and 23 for the 1h) is 943.

41 goes into 943, 23 times. (twohanded swings)
23 goes into 943, 41 times. (onehanded swings)

Threat equals # of swings * threat generation of weapon (base weap. damage+damage bonus)
Threat generated by the 2handed weapon = 23*53 = 1219
Threat generated by the 1handed weapon = 41*25 = 1025

This means to surpass the 2handed weapon in threat generation the offhand, doing 14 threat per swing, would need to swing 14 times while the main hand swings 41 times which means DW needs to activate 34% of the time.

This isn't even factoring in a second hand to proc double attack with, it's pretty clear that right now dual wielding is going to significantly beat out two handed weapons.

Post Velious the two-handed damage bonus becomes more complicated. It's the exact same for delays between 28 and 39. For delay 40-42 its 1 point higher. For delays 43 and 44 its 3 points higher. For delays 45+ its (Delay - 31)/3 higher (example, tantors tusk has 60 delay its damage bonus would be base+(delay -31)/3 = 17+(60-31)/3 = 26.6 rounded down to 26 bonus.

I'm getting rambly but in the above scenario you'd basically add 1 more threat per swing cause the warrior epic has 41 delay. Giving its total threat = 1242 which would mean the off-hand would need to swing 16 times before overtaking the two-handed weapon which means DW needs to activate 39% of the time.

I'm not going to compare velious era weapons but I just don't see it ever being advisable to tank with a two-hander as a dual wielding class if threat generation is your only concern.

Could be a whole different world for Pal/SK though.

[Metallikus]

you need to put in your twink paragraph that painbringer is the best twink weapon and it procs at lvl 1.

also, need to add in giant text somewhere that ogres are the best.

[Droog007]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A solid response for which I am thankful

That looks good on paper, and I'm not going to argue against it ... but I guess the reason I thought 2Hers had legs in the threat race is because they are often used when warriors are just wanting to max DPS (Staff of Battle gets a lot of use here, if I'm not mistaken).

So, given that DPS is similar (or even greater) while variance is greater (if you hit for max damage on every swing with a 2Her would it not vastly out-damage 100% accuracy/damage with 2 1Hers?), it just seems like the potential damage would be far larger.

And it's potential damage (even when you miss) that counts. Actual damage is just icing on the cake. You would just have to make up for the ~50ish% more procs (which is saying a lot, I realize).

[Peekae]

Problem with 2 handers is aggro consistency at the start of a pull IMO. If you miss once or twice that's a good amount of time gaining 0 aggro. Overall I just feel dual wielding is better in most group or trash killing situations.

That being said once you proc it won't matter too much. On harder hitting mobs ( raid targets using mallet clicks) a slow 2h or dagas + shield is actually quite nice.

Edit: overall threat throne blade isn't bad but something along the lines of rod of mourning would be better for consistent 2h threat.... Or jagged blade of war of course :P

[Metallikus]

also when you parse warriors, you need to distinguish between ogre parses and everyone else.

ogres don't get bashed and kick stunned from the front so they don't lose .2 sec for each and overtime during a fight that adds up when take into consideration you miss your own kick/disarm/taunt opportunities and during the time you are stunned you do not mitigate as well as when you aren't stunned.

POSITIONING MOBS is also important for tanks: if you are constantly being bashed and kick stunned, you cant put the mob where you want, when you want to.

Also, you don't mention agility as much as you should, which increases the ability to mitigate more damage than most common folk imagine.

[Splorf22]

The problem with 2H is that for some reason its melee threat is penalized by about 2/3. I have no idea way, and I posted a bug thread about it, and like every single one of my game mechanics bug threads it has been totally ignored by the developers. Do not use 2H as a warrior. http://www.project1999.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=88535

Metallikus I did the math on ogres on the wiki page, which suggests the difference ends up being a few %. That being said, I've never played an ogre warrior so <shrug>

[Spitty]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That being said, I've never played an ogre warrior so <shrug>

THEN HOW ARE YOU OVERTRAINED?!?!

You need to be...wait for it...OGRE TRAINED.