Discussion on R99 vs VZTZ **POSTPONED**

[Gustoo]

Casuals are going to wash out hard when they get to lvl 60 in 16 hours and begin trying to pharmacy items that take that long.

Agatha is right. Being lvl 60 in eq is far from casual.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Casuals are going to wash out hard when they get to lvl 60 in 16 hours and begin trying to pharmacy items that take that long.

Agatha is right. Being lvl 60 in eq is far from casual.

Yep. Even 60 is hard because then you have to start closing the gear gap and getting other high end items to be competitive. I'm not bitching. But it is a fact of life. Even Jboots is a long camp for people with short attention spans. I know I did it for 4 days STRAIGHT, without a break and it broke me. I will buy jboots on all my toons from here on out. its just something to consider.

[SamwiseRed]

so many things can be said about the server situation and how to improve it. i dont feel like heartbranding this thread with a 27 paragraph response so ill just push for what i want most.

new server

hard coded deity based teams (3 teams SZ style)

that is all.

[Bazia]

I will be flat out honest, I have played on this server since launch and been involved with almost every guild/crew at one point or another.

Right now red feels as dead as it ever has since Kunark was launched, it confuses me because the /who all count will say 70 but the /ooc is dead empty and I can port around all day on my druid and find barely anyone.

It really has a feeling of emptiness lately, I haven't felt it this bad since it was the days of 14 pop during classic when Nihilum was just farming planes on a schedule and no one else was playing other then myself, chewie, salem, and beck.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think this server has ran it's course until at least Velious launch. EXP is p good now, but yet it just feels dead.

If there is still people consistently logging on for 12 hours a day or more 2 months from now to farm when it's this empty I would be surprised.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Bazia [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I will be flat out honest, I have played on this server since launch and been involved with almost every guild/crew at one point or another.

Right now red feels as dead as it ever has since Kunark was launched, it confuses me because the /who all count will say 70 but the /ooc is dead empty and I can port around all day on my druid and find barely anyone.

It really has a feeling of emptiness lately, I haven't felt it this bad since it was the days of 14 pop during classic when Nihilum was just farming planes on a schedule and no one else was playing other then myself, chewie, salem, and beck.

I don't know what the solution is, but I think this server has ran it's course until at least Velious launch. EXP is p good now, but yet it just feels dead.

If there is still people consistently logging on for 12 hours a day or more 2 months from now to farm when it's this empty I would be surprised.

Before Kunark there was a lot more pvp indeed even though the population was much lower its weird as hell.

And it was more legit pvp. Less high end geared toons and more people just pvpin on walmart funded chars. I think now that Kunark has been on farm its really hurt the mid level pop a lot. You occasionally run into a complete noob you don't want to kill. Or someone who is a demigod unless you have multiple toons at your disposal to kill OOR heals + 2 or 3 other twinks. Its pretty crazy how the demographics are working.

[Gustoo]

I kind of agree with Bazia.

More EXP won't help.

Anything like a % of server pop limit on guild is ridiculous.

Wiping server promises zero confidence in new PVP box, which will really force all the dedicated psychopaths (that are really important to EQ) to play on blue server.


Whether or not it works is debatable, but I think a 4 lvl pvp range 1-60, and rallos zek item loot rules have the -potential- to make the server have some life.

It deosn't hurt new players at all because new players literally have nothing worth taking.

It hurts nihilum because it means when they PVE in their best gear, they risk at least one of their people getting singled out and killed by a small suicide attack force.

It hurts pk twinks because it means when they log on drunk / high to PK noobs in unrest that they risk losing their fungi or fbss or whatever.

It potentially helps noobs because it means they have something to PVP for.

The twinks are already here, they already stomp noobs. Newbie banded armor and like ivory bracelets aren't something they will be hunted for. They will be hunted as always for the pride of killing people.

But now I and others like me would have reasons to make PK hunters for the fun attempt at attaining some sweet item loot. It would give life to lower levels and a reason for people to play in the lowbie zones, as well as a reason to try to fight people that are stronger than them in the higher zones.

Yes I understand that nihilum has better no drop gear than you do, but they also have better droppable gear that they like to wear. And in Velious there is a lot of good no drop gear for everyone to get, but still a ton of uber droppable stuff that people will want to use, and will have to be careful about using which makes the whole experience more exciting.

Yeah, it might not in the long run fix the server, maybe it will totally back fire somehow, but it is worth trying. The only people that will really hate it are fungi twinks, and everyone else kinda hates them anyways.


For Sirken, My resume is as follows: I quit LIVE rallos zek when augments came out and disabled item loot. I began EMU because I heard about "guildwars pvp server with level 50 max" on some old forum post somewhere. I got EMU all setup and found guildwars server was long gone. I played shards of dalaya because i heard rumors of a PVP server there. I heard rumors of a PVP server from p99 staff and played blue99 in anticipation of R99. I played red 99 beta and burnt out from seeming lack of interest by the staff, and the knowledge that all the time I invest is going to be deleted anyways. Now I look back and see beta as the best red99 experience there ever was, with a lot of high hopes for a grand PVP server and a lot of hilarious guilds running around. I came to red99 launch a month or two late because after beta I quit beta I really was burnt out. By the time I got to red99 people were already moaning about this and that. Since then I have grouped a little bit, and soloed a lot of the way to level 59 as a cleric. I love the server but always feel that I could love it more. I really only want what is best for it, what might make it more fun for people.

I maintain that focusing on getting people to level 60 is not the answer. Level 1-50 is the most important part of the game, level 60 is for the most dedicated players, not casuals that are looking for fun. Low level PVP is for the casual players. Item loot inspires people to pvp at those levels and look for that darker grey chainmail BP. It also stimulates the (now totally dead) server economy in a number of ways.

[Mittens Romney]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I kind of agree with Bazia.

More EXP won't help.

Anything like a % of server pop limit on guild is ridiculous.

Wiping server promises zero confidence in new PVP box, which will really force all the dedicated psychopaths (that are really important to EQ) to play on blue server.


Whether or not it works is debatable, but I think a 4 lvl pvp range 1-60, and rallos zek item loot rules have the -potential- to make the server have some life.

It deosn't hurt new players at all because new players literally have nothing worth taking.

It hurts nihilum because it means when they PVE in their best gear, they risk at least one of their people getting singled out and killed by a small suicide attack force.

It hurts pk twinks because it means when they log on drunk / high to PK noobs in unrest that they risk losing their fungi or fbss or whatever.

It potentially helps noobs because it means they have something to PVP for.

The twinks are already here, they already stomp noobs. Newbie banded armor and like ivory bracelets aren't something they will be hunted for. They will be hunted as always for the pride of killing people.

But now I and others like me would have reasons to make PK hunters for the fun attempt at attaining some sweet item loot. It would give life to lower levels and a reason for people to play in the lowbie zones, as well as a reason to try to fight people that are stronger than them in the higher zones.

Yes I understand that nihilum has better no drop gear than you do, but they also have better droppable gear that they like to wear. And in Velious there is a lot of good no drop gear for everyone to get, but still a ton of uber droppable stuff that people will want to use, and will have to be careful about using which makes the whole experience more exciting.

Yeah, it might not in the long run fix the server, maybe it will totally back fire somehow, but it is worth trying. The only people that will really hate it are fungi twinks, and everyone else kinda hates them anyways.


For Sirken, My resume is as follows: I quit LIVE rallos zek when augments came out and disabled item loot. I began EMU because I heard about "guildwars pvp server with level 50 max" on some old forum post somewhere. I got EMU all setup and found guildwars server was long gone. I played shards of dalaya because i heard rumors of a PVP server there. I heard rumors of a PVP server from p99 staff and played blue99 in anticipation of R99. I played red 99 beta and burnt out from seeming lack of interest by the staff, and the knowledge that all the time I invest is going to be deleted anyways. Now I look back and see beta as the best red99 experience there ever was, with a lot of high hopes for a grand PVP server and a lot of hilarious guilds running around. I came to red99 launch a month or two late because after beta I quit beta I really was burnt out. By the time I got to red99 people were already moaning about this and that. Since then I have grouped a little bit, and soloed a lot of the way to level 59 as a cleric. I love the server but always feel that I could love it more. I really only want what is best for it, what might make it more fun for people.

I maintain that focusing on getting people to level 60 is not the answer. Level 1-50 is the most important part of the game, level 60 is for the most dedicated players, not casuals that are looking for fun. Low level PVP is for the casual players. Item loot inspires people to pvp at those levels and look for that darker grey chainmail BP. It also stimulates the (now totally dead) server economy in a number of ways.

There are 100 problems with item loot. I played RZ during item loot and I played on vztz when they had item loot (including droppable planer gear).

One problem is you have a huge amount of people who will play glass cannon classes such as wizards or naked SKs who will run around trying to collect every small piece of gear off anyone they can gank.

Melee classes are at a special disadvantage because they rely much heavier on gear to be able to pvp or pve.

An item loot enabled server is especially fun for griefers which ultimately makes an entire server full of people who are naked except during raids. If item loot was put onto red99 without there being a wipe first there would be even less people joining up to play than there is now. Who would want to start on a server where even your bronze breastplate is going to get stolen by someone with far superior gear/no gear on? Your idea that the fungi twinked out guy is going to have a lot of risk when they log in high/drunk to pk is just silly. It takes a lot more than just 1 item to make a twinked lowbie pk. Even if that twink loses a fungi tunic, the person who looted it will soon lose it to someone unless its always bagged, so it does them no good.

[Infectious]

Item loot is as stupid as exp loss. Why? Cause you will have twinks killing new people, looting their gear and just deleteing it to be a dick head. I have killed people, they rage tell and never seen again.

You want to make this shit exciting? Turn on pvp teams today and hardcode that shit. Make it darks vs lights. Dont allow race changes. This means that current zerg guilds will be broken up, enemies will have to guild up to go against the other side. Darkside( ogre, troll, de and iksar) and light side the rest of the races. That gives dark side iksars and the best tanks and light side druids and bards.

[Gustoo]

the guy who wins the fungi will just sell it and buy some weapons or held items.

Yeah the server dynamics are different. Yes cowards play naked and are easier to kill and are weaker in PVE and PVP.

It changes everything completely. Glass cannon classes are incredibly easy to kill for 2 or so normal players. Melee can level to 50+ wearing full banded. I will personally make sets of banded for all lowbie melees I find. They don't have to care if that gets taken from them, its worthless.

Real newbies have nothing to worry about. Level 60's with great gear have to be careful. I'd have to bag my rubi bp sometimes. Rough life. Item loot also teaches you who your real friends are because your bad friends will take a cheap shot on you when you are low HP.

But you're a nihilum druid who attacks people banking in rivervale so I didn't expect you to be really fond of this notion, but we are trying to save the server for the rest of the world, not only dedicated raiding guild members. I am trying to help you guys by not encouraging a full wipe.

[Mittens Romney]

Originally Posted by Gustoo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

the guy who wins the fungi will just sell it and buy some weapons or held items.

Yeah the server dynamics are different. Yes cowards play naked and are easier to kill and are weaker in PVE and PVP.

It changes everything completely. Glass cannon classes are incredibly easy to kill for 2 or so normal players. Melee can level to 50+ wearing full banded. I will personally make sets of banded for all lowbie melees I find. They don't have to care if that gets taken from them.

That is a nice thing to offer but it changes nothing.
People do not want to play in donated banded gear and nothing else. I know it would help for you to do this for people just signing up for red99 but after losing your 5th banded bp to the same naked jerk you will get burned out and quit.

A naked SK or Wiz kills someone, it does not matter if that person is in a group of 6 players or 2 players. They can enter the zone and get one kill without to much difficulty especially if they attack during PvE. That wiz/SK can then bag the item and die themselves and lose nothing. Happened all the time on RZ and vztz.