Some Fun Raid Changes

[Handull]

I like the Anti-Poopsocking code from the stand point of it does what you say about making it harder to camp out a raid for a mob during a repop. I don't like the idea because I feel like in the end it will just be another rule that guilds get around by having the right classes camped out in the right spots with the right buffs. I think it sounds elegant for some zones (seb, hate, etc), but can get messy with others. You would also have to fix the training/agro mechanics in order to have this (this would also help fix some of the train war issues that happen in fear, but not all of them) that being if you run past me with a train, I should get on that train's agro list, currently I won't be on their agro list unless I engage them, buff/heal you, or you lose agro (die/zone/fd) while I'm inside their agro range. With the current system Trak would become a race for monks/necros/sks to train away see invis mobs so a guild could run down and fte+stall tank. Stopping to fight any see invis juggs or, heaven forbid, engaging prot/tola before Trak would cause a guild to lose the race, etc.

But nice post, there is a lot that can be said about all this.

edit: forgot to say, i think the biggest/best thing we can have is the simultaneous repops. Being in a smaller guild that raided the planes a while ago, we got to experience one or two server repops, and we tried to go after mobs. The biggest problem we faced was the organization. When you plan a planar raid there is no rigid start time, log on 15 minutes late and no one really cares. Don't have ot hammers, wc caps, and convenient bind spots set up, and its just a small inconvenience for your porters to run out and collect everyone. But when racing for a raid mob, those minutes add up, and the best way to get better at it is experience. People will get ot hammers/wc caps/etc when they learn the hard way that they are going to miss an attempt at Inny because they were left behind for being in lake rathe with no way to gate, etc. A repop here and there is a little fun, but if we started to see them regularly we'd start to see more and more smaller guilds figuring out how to organize just a little better to make sure they get an attempt at a mob, rather than spending 20 minutes trying to organize just to watch a top end guild run in get their 4th kill of the repop on the mob you wanted.

[Wotsirb401]

It all boils down to people know way too much about this game now. Back in 1998/9 people didnt farm idols beacause there was no need to stall tank etc. At least on my server everything was up for the most part and roatations were communicated.

[Splorf22]

Well, I think 95% of the stuff I proposed is extremely classic. The antipoopsocking code is not, and is tailored to the specific situation we have here at 1999 with twelve accounts per person.

In the end I think it's very difficult to predict what would actually happen. These are just some reasonable ideas to try; if something happens then give the players a few months to adjust and see what happens.

[agdros]

Not classic.
GM/Server management have repeatedly stated they will not "manage" raid content.
They are very interested in seeing the player base change the raid situation on thier own.

[A1551]

Originally Posted by agdros [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not classic.
GM/Server management have repeatedly stated they will not "manage" raid content.
They are very interested in seeing the player base change the raid situation on thier own.

Neither is the current setup of variance/extended windows etc -- so that's kind of a silly argument. And frequent patch day repops WERE classic, so ditto.

No one is asking them to "manage" raid content more than they already are -- loraen didn't have a box up above saying "GM managed-rotation" -- the server staff already manage raid content via variance/extended windows, etc. These are some possible alternatives that would probably make the raiding scene more fun for everyone / less ridiculous overall. And they're mostly predicated on keeping GM enforcement to a minimum.

[xarzzardorn]

some shortsighted suggestions. leap frogging happens in a lot of zones. zones like plane of hate for example. in fact it is a much bigger problem in almost every zone but pofear.

camping out at mobs isn't poopsocking but people will try to describe things that don't benefit them negatively all the time. with that said it wouldn't be bad if there was some way to stop it but i'm sure whatever solution you had in mind would be quickly circumvented. trackers will just cycle logins and eventually it'll turn into a 2 hour sock when the port trigger happens. even porting out the entire zone would mess with everyone doing stuff other than trakanon, though it would make for better fun.

nagafen and lady vox can already be stalled indefinitely by a single group of 52 players. not really sure why you would want to raise the level requirement

idol stalls happen because FTE is the master decider. tmo has lost mobs to single FE players because of the mistaken belief that them not having an actual raid nulled their engagement. until you come up with a better and ~equally objective way of awarding loot that won't change.

its my belief that velious will fix a lot of these problems just by the sheer increase in difficulty, aside from certain mobs eg Zlandicar.

[Splorf22]

Appreciate the constructive post.

Originally Posted by xarzzardorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

in fact leapfrogging is a much bigger problem in almost every zone but pofear.

Well as I have stated before I think EQ is just not designed to deal with two raid forces in the same zone. It's always going to about training stuff away and there isn't a lot that can be done about this other without substantial changes to game mechanics. However, I think the issue is particularly severe in the Plane of Fear because of the way Cazic summons the zone. I remember when I was in VD we had like 10 zone desyncs in a row when zerging him with 75 players and 100+ mobs being summoned and that Botnet trying to hunt him down when he was at 5% or something.

Originally Posted by xarzzardorn

even porting out the entire zone

this is basically what I am proposing. The server goes down, so everyone has to camp out, and when they log back in . . . things have changed.

Originally Posted by xarzzardorn

its my belief that velious will fix a lot of these problems just by the sheer increase in difficulty, aside from certain mobs eg Zlandicar.

I just don't see EQ raiding as difficult when you can always zerg stuff. If you can't handle the Avatar of War with 24, bring 50. Or 100. Or 200. I'm sure the server will have some 500-1000 raiders when everyone comes back for Velious.

P.S. I finally figured out Propo Fol thanks to your avatar. It's a cute name!

[Kelven]

While some of these ideas seem to have some validity, I don't see a lot of them being viable for the server.

Simultaneous Repops: +1

Forbidding training in Veeshan's Peak: Training is stupid. anywhere.

Antipoopsocking code: Too complicated honestly.

Reset All Named: I don't really see a valid point here. Every rare spawn will eventually show up if you camp it for a little while. You would in essence be changing the definition of a rare spawn.


Antileapfrogging policy in Fear: I dunno if a +1minute code is viable. Honestly, if you've cleared most of the zone -- it should be yours unless you wipe ( or you're taking too long to engage the boss). There's just TOO MUCH GREED on this server.

Change Nagafen and Vox to banish L56+: Lvl 52 was a good cap for this because of the Lvl Nagafen and Vox themselves were. If you increased this to 56 -- even fewer people would be required to kill them, and that would enable faster kills.. which in turn would decrease the chances you had in getting a kill ( which I think is what you were going for )

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Kelven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Antipoopsocking code: Too complicated honestly.

I'm telling you as a computer scientist that this can be implemented very easily.

Anyway if people don't like my particular ideas that's fine. I just think something needs to be done about how raiding on this server is 90% about camping multiple buffed chars out 20 feet away from the spawn points of the various bosses. On Live you were only going to have one toon, and you'd probably be busy leveling/farming with it, so a patch day would actually be about mobilization.

The same goes for the antileapfrogging ideas about the Plane of Fear. I'm just throwing some stuff out there; people are welcome to suggest other ideas. Throwing up your hands and saying 'people are too greedy' isn't going to change anything though.

I have to say I'm amazed this thread is staying civil. It must be because I namedropped Sirken ;D

[Frieza_Prexus]

I personally like the anti-socking code. For me, I enjoy the race to kill a mob with only minimal preparation and the target triage that always accompanies hard decisions.

In fact, an anti-sock code on repops encourages competition by ensuring that only the best and most organized can rally to a target as opposed to who has the best 4-5 man FTE crew with DA idols CH items. Skill and organization matters a lot more when you can't rely on 4 monks/sks/necros who have huge play times and large amounts of skill. Instead, your weakest links matter, and that's true competition.