Players will always compete for raid mobs; the point of contention is the rules

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training is fine with me.

However, I think variance is sort of lame. I think the game would be a lot more fun if the raid targets all popped at the same time once a week. People would actually get to try to get mobs, and FTE would "hopefully" eliminate disputes. For sure there is no way that TMO or any power guild would get all the mobs. Only thing I can't figure out is whether or not it should be the same time each week that all mobs spawn or if the weekly time should be random. Regardless, this would decrease tracking with either situation, and people could actually play the game instead of just staring at the screen doing nothing. I did the tracking of Ragefire to get my blazing armor which wasn't fun, and I'm glad it's done.

Regardless, I don't have much interest in participating in raiding through tracking/batphoning, so my time on P99 is essentially done. I had my fun, still mess around on the forums, but I feel like I "won" EverQuest by getting to 60 and obtaining many Kunark best in slot pieces.

Not the worse idea I have ever heard but what about if you live in New Zealand?? You get to get up at say 3:00 am to kill big ugly Dragons every time?? Just silly in reality. Or are you going to tell your wife you are getting up at 3:00 am. Tell us how well that will work out plz.

[Sarius]

They would need to eliminate training in VP AND have simultaneous repops in order for more guilds to have a shot a raid mobs. Otherwise one or two trainers could keep VP raiders at bay while the remainder of their guild cleans up the other mobs

[falkun]

Training in VP allows the guild that controls VP to kill other targets and keep a small training force in VP to prevent others from killing precious VP mobs. If you could not train in VP, there are enough people keyed that the mobs would die immediately and trainers couldn't save them for later. Consider the effects of holing VP capable guilds up in VP on respawn days when they can't save the VP mobs for last...

To whomever said this server is a Classic experience, please tell me how 96+ hour Variance is classic.

As I've said in the Sirken interview thread, if CSR wants the playerbase to self-police, then give us the capability to self-police. Variance takes away capability to police: only when your guild can answer a batphone instead of planning ahead.

Webrunner, this is EQ, not real life, we're in their world now. I play real life when I take my dog to the park, cook dinner for/with my wife, and pay my bills. When paying bills becomes more satisfying than raiding, something's wrong with the game.

Lorean, that was a good OP, don't let the troll/spin-force get you down.

[kaev]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When paying bills becomes more satisfying than raiding, something's wrong with the game.

Amen

[carli]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training in VP allows the guild that controls VP to kill other targets and keep a small training force in VP to prevent others from killing precious VP mobs. If you could not train in VP, there are enough people keyed that the mobs would die immediately and trainers couldn't save them for later. Consider the effects of holing VP capable guilds up in VP on respawn days when they can't save the VP mobs for last...

To whomever said this server is a Classic experience, please tell me how 96+ hour Variance is classic.

As I've said in the Sirken interview thread, if CSR wants the playerbase to self-police, then give us the capability to self-police. Variance takes away capability to police: only when your guild can answer a batphone instead of planning ahead.

Webrunner, this is EQ, not real life, we're in their world now. I play real life when I take my dog to the park, cook dinner for/with my wife, and pay my bills. When paying bills becomes more satisfying than raiding, something's wrong with the game.

Lorean, that was a good OP, don't let the troll/spin-force get you down.

Great post I agree with everything said here.

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training in VP allows the guild that controls VP to kill other targets and keep a small training force in VP to prevent others from killing precious VP mobs. If you could not train in VP, there are enough people keyed that the mobs would die immediately and trainers couldn't save them for later. Consider the effects of holing VP capable guilds up in VP on respawn days when they can't save the VP mobs for last...

To whomever said this server is a Classic experience, please tell me how 96+ hour Variance is classic.

As I've said in the Sirken interview thread, if CSR wants the playerbase to self-police, then give us the capability to self-police. Variance takes away capability to police: only when your guild can answer a batphone instead of planning ahead.

Webrunner, this is EQ, not real life, we're in their world now. I play real life when I take my dog to the park, cook dinner for/with my wife, and pay my bills. When paying bills becomes more satisfying than raiding, something's wrong with the game.

Lorean, that was a good OP, don't let the troll/spin-force get you down.

I know this is EQ, not something real on paper. But guess what, there are real people playing all these toons. Just go play on Red and you will see what REAL people like to do there. Kill your ass. And that is what most of the hardcore people want to do in TMO. Is kill your ass. Sad fact of life. Rogean, Nilbog, Sirken all seem to be hands off on the Raid Scene so it is not going to change like it or not. I am not fond of it either but I have just given up. Sad really.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I know this is EQ, not something real on paper. But guess what, there are real people playing all these toons. Just go play on Red and you will see what REAL people like to do there. Kill your ass. And that is what most of the hardcore people want to do in TMO. Is kill your ass. Sad fact of life. Rogean, Nilbog, Sirken all seem to be hands off on the Raid Scene so it is not going to change like it or not.

So basically you are saying TMO would fit in on Red, since the goals of the two align. Sounds good to me. Go be internet tough guys and "kill that ass" on Red. Can't make it in the Marine Corp., join TMO on Red, its almost equivalent. (Apologies to the Marine Corp., I'm sure most of you are not out to simply "kill that ass", maybe death row would fit TMO better?)

[Sckrilla]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So basically you are saying TMO would fit in on Red, since the goals of the two align. Sounds good to me. Go be internet tough guys and "kill that ass" on Red. Can't make it in the Marine Corp., join TMO on Red, its almost equivalent. (Apologies to the Marine Corp., I'm sure most of you are not out to simply "kill that ass", maybe death row would fit TMO better?)

Funny you mad this correlation considering Sericx is an ex-jarhead... lulz!

[zanderklocke]

If I had a battle to pick with the raid scene in terms of what makes the overall experience less fun for all players in terms of "training in VP" or "variance", I'm still going to say it's variance.

No one, not even TMO enjoys tracking. Everyone wants simultaneous raid mobs popping with people racing to the targets. Why do you think everyone has so much fun on server repop days and score tally threads pop up on the forums? It's fun competition that everyone tries to take part in.

Pressing track or staring at all wall just isn't fun; no one on this server has fun doing it.

Obviously, some people do not have fun due to training in VP, but on the other hand, some people do have fun training in VP. I would sure as heck be annoyed if I was killing a mob, and then all of a sudden my raid got wiped due to someone pulling mobs over us. However, I'd probably be somewhat excited to have a chance at a mob if the competing raid was trained over. It just depends on the side of the spectrum you are on I suppose; no one getting loot based on the system will want it to change. Some people like training; others don't. No general consensus will be reached on this topic.

However, with this being said, no one enjoys tracking and staring at the wall. Absolutely no one. I really think a general consensus could be reached on agreeing that variance, which is not classic, takes away from having fun in the game for all people on the server. Maybe guilds like being able to have a system in place that allows their guild to better mobilize and get mobs, but the actual trackers are not actually having "fun" when tracking.

Let's not kid ourselves, tracking does not take more skill; it just takes more warm bodies. Training in VP on the other hand probably does involve skill, even if the playing fields aren't quite even due to lack of VP keys being available. Perhaps removing variance might pop some more Trakanon teeth into the population? If people want EQ to be a game of skill, fun, and competition, variance probably has to go. It stands in opposition to all these factors that could make EQ raiding fun. Training in VP is an issue that is on the fence for me; I think it's a much more difficult issue to reach a consensus on.

Thoughts?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by zanderklocke [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Training in VP is an issue that is on the fence for me; I think it's a much more difficult issue to reach a consensus on.

Thoughts?

The massive Variance this server has is not classic, but it is nice that raid mobs are allowed to drift around the clock so they are sometimes in prime-time for non-US folks. Personally I'd like pre-announced (like 2-7 days notice?) full respawn either a) every other week and does not affect normal timers or b) once per month that resets all spawn timers. But do not always have the full respawn at the same time of day, just give adequate notice so people can be on.

My reason for being against training in VP is that training allows VP capable guilds to kill targets outside VP first and save VP targets for when its convenient. Killing spawns when its convenient is:
1) counter-philosophy to Variance (Sirken says Variance keeps guilds from pushing spawns to "off-hours" as Nihilum on Red does)
2) Reduces the chance for other guilds to get raid mobs because VP guilds do not have to focus on VP and can focus efforts elsewhere
3) Makes VP different than every other zone in the game