Solutions to the Tunnel Trainer.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by mistersuits [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They're probably in EC Tunnel because that's explicitly what the GMs wanted when they disabled global chat channels... i.e. a community to bloom out of the necessity for trade? Seems like if you're going to force your playerbase somewhere these kinds of training exploits should be sorted out.

#1) The GM's forced people into the EC Tunnel? Quoting Nilbog, 5-23-10:

Whether the East Commonlands tunnel re-emerges as the dominate social area or another location, you should have the opportunity to forge your own community.

They want community, not necessarily EC. Saying "YOU HAVE TO PROTECT EC BECAUSE IT'S OUR COMMUNITY" is what it is - an appeal to the gods. If they leave you to fend for yourself, don't be surprised.

#2) Training "exploits"? I don't think this describes it accurately enough. It is stupid, but it's a legitimate game mechanic, not something like duping, where it's actually a malfunction within the structure of the game.

[Elissa]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My question is this - why are you at the EC Tunnel? How long do you stay there? Why do other evil people who actually sit at the EC tunnel for long periods of time (who aren't necros or SKs) apparently find ways to deal with it which are somehow impossible for you?

And it's not too hard to figure out a way to deal with it. You'll just have to do that.

If the GM's nerf Slate/Rinna or something similar which negates the problem, great - but at least until then, you should try to cope (which you claim is impossible).

First, I don't recall saying anything is "impossible." Don't put words in my mouth.

Second, I'm in the EC tunnel for the same reason 99% of other people are there: make sales, be social, find an item i've been looking for... basically, relax after a night of exping or doing whatever i was doing elsewhere. That's how it was on live, and that's how it's been here, except for the last few days. I'm sorry I don't have amazing items that I get 100 tells for the moment I auction. It typically takes time and repeated efforts for me to sell what I'm selling, or find the items i'm interested in buying for the prices I can afford. Even so, i've never sat there for "hours." Again, read my post, I looked away for 30 seconds, and it happened -- and then again, the moment after I had just paid for a rez. Sure, I could go sit in some random location in the zone and only show up to make a sale/buy, but that's hardly social (and it could happen then too). Besides, most of my communication with other players in the zone is by /say.

My question for you is: What is your big issue with people, such as myself, not wanting to deal with folks who purposely and repeatedly train, for no other reason than to be malicious assholes? Are you the one doing it? If not, then why do you care that anyone else is upset about it happening? Do you truly believe the server is a better place where pointless purposeful training is rampant? And that anyone who complains about such rampant training should just "deal with it" and "cope?"

I am "coping" just fine, thank you. Posting about an issue that annoys you does not evidence an inability to "cope."

[Messianic]

I apologize if my reply seemed too snarky - I didn't intend it to be that way. With regard to the content:

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, I don't recall saying anything is "impossible." Don't put words in my mouth.

I didn't put words in your mouth. I showed you where what you were saying was leading, not where you had already gone.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My question for you is: What is your big issue with people, such as myself, not wanting to deal with folks who purposely and repeatedly train, for no other reason than to be malicious assholes?

I don't. But people arguing "GM Intervention is essential" haven't exhausted their options.

Also, you're dealing with a symptom, not the problem. You will have to deal with those folks in some form.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you the one doing it?

Why even make this accusation? I'm not defending people who train.

I definitely don't - I play two characters, one of which has never even been to EC. The other has the same name as my forum account.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If not, then why do you care that anyone else is upset about it happening?

I don't care whether you're upset about it at all. I care that some would accept ANY CHANGE, regardless how it screwed with the game experience in other areas, just to stop people from training Rinna. There are worse states that could result from a nerf - as overcast said before, part of the character of this game are little things like this - the few jerks that make the game difficult. Different symptoms of the same problem were just as common in EQLive - you're just focused on this particular aspect of it because it's personally affected you.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you truly believe the server is a better place where pointless purposeful training is rampant?

Just sounds like a lot of hyperbole. Dying every day to the same thing doesn't happen to all, or even most of the evils, even those who hang around in EC for extended periods of time.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And that anyone who complains about such rampant training should just "deal with it" and "cope?"

Nope. It's just that anyone who complains about X boogeyman problem and demands GM intervention will likely begin to demand it elsewhere, wherever they "perceive" that a reasonable solution is not available. Sure, GM intervention is often necessary in certain situations. But it seems light to demand it here. I think the game is more fun when we have to fend for ourselves - not defer to the GM when situations seem hard or very hard. That's the kind of game I want to play.

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am "coping" just fine, thank you. Posting about an issue that annoys you does not evidence an inability to "cope."

One of my points was specifically that you are able to cope. Dunno why you make a point of that. I'm genuinely sorry jerks made you lose pp/time. But I still prefer the game as-is over a number of possible "solutions" to the training issue.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

Just so this is clear. They do not have impunity. People get suspended then banned. If you are referring to people recreating accounts from various IP addresses, they are banned the same way.. the difference here is that they don't have to go buy a new account key.

They are NOT immune from punishment.

[Elissa]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just so this is clear. They do not have impunity. People get suspended then banned. If you are referring to people recreating accounts from various IP addresses, they are banned the same way.. the difference here is that they don't have to go buy a new account key.

They are NOT immune from punishment.

I was already quite clear on this point. Thus my use of the word "impunity." Because thats what it is when you can just re-create a new account and keep doing what you've been doing.

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I was already quite clear on this point. Thus my use of the word "impunity." Because thats what it is when you can just re-create a new account and keep doing what you've been doing.

Oh, well I just disagree with your definition I suppose. Where impunity means freedom, I would consider anonymous training more of a "circumvention, bypass, exploit, sidestep, or skirting of punishment." Not a freedom.

:T We're doing what we can. Continue on with suggestions.

[Overcast]

Originally Posted by Elissa [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For those of you saying "Don't change it!" a few things are obvious:

1. You are not dying to this every day.

2. You forget that on Live serial-training was a bannable offense.

3. You misunderstand the concept of "wanting EQ to be hard." The game should be and is hard for various reasons, but scrubs training you repeatedly, on purpose, should not be one of them. I have no problem with accidents, noobs not calling a train, etc. I do have a significant problem with momentarily going AFK to pull boiling water off the stove, for example, and coming back dead and then grudgingly paying for a rez only to find myself getting killed again the MOMENT I rez. That's not "hard," that's retarded.

EC is and should continue to be one of the more enjoyable aspects of the game. However, that does not include scrubs purposely training Rinna/Slate repeatedly with impunity.

With my post.. I didn't mean to lessen the problem in anyway. But until a resolution is found or the trainers manage to find some other place to 'get attention' - you may have to adjust what you do.

And just keep optimistic - don't let others screw up your fun.

[Aadill]

On my server back in live, NFP was the trading spot. Evils in the sewers or behind Jade got trained all the time. They zoned, hid, had good-aligned trading alts, or died. It is much more rampant on this server due to the fact that getting an account banned does not have a permanent punishment. I am not a fan because people still trade all over the zone and it really doesn't make a difference as to what zone you want but people chose EC. Luckily EC is the easiest to deal with -

You want a solution? Permaroot, massive regen, and massive damage to high level NPCs (merchants etc) in EC ala Nexus Scions when Luclin came out. There aren't many NPCs in the zone so you could easily edit that. Sergeant Slate and the rest of the guards is all you will have to deal with because they cannot and should not be rooted. You'll get trained with guards that should be protecting the zone from those that shouldn't be there anyway, but you won't have ridiculous trains.

[Messianic]

The dominant social area should be Ak'anon. That way, training would be a way for the trolls and ogres to get their daily protein.

Just saying.

[Overcast]

I'm assuming they aren't running up - hitting the level 61 NPC and then training.
It's gotta be a range pull, right?

Can you just make her like a 'dragon' - and force Melee range attacks on her?

That or just boot anyone back to the login screen if they are under level 10 and initiate any attack on the NPC's in EC over level 40 or whatever.

Although - really, the perma-root idea... might be best. /shrug