EQNext Discussion

[Calibix]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you have to damn near go out in the audience and jack people off to get them to clap at your presentation that tells you a lot right there. All I needed to see.

Rose colored glasses bro. Your avatar fools no one.

ITS NOT P99 THEREFORE IT MUST SUCK.

[Tasslehofp99]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When you have to damn near go out in the audience and jack people off to get them to clap at your presentation that tells you a lot right there. All I needed to see.

/thread

[Calibix]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not really

UO you have specific builds that you either do or you're gimped.

I imagine the same goes for SWG.

I played a ton of UO. Please elaborate on what specific builds you did that gimped you because there weren't any (at least when I played). Every melee build was viable, magic was viable, taming was viable. You had to make dedicated characters if you wanted to craft or treasure hunt, but outside of that anything you chose to do would have worked.

Now if your talking taking 50 in fencing and 50 in swordmanship and saying that your gimped, your just a retard for not understanding how the game worked. Why would you ever choose to be half as good at two things instead of the best at one.

Stand by former statements. P99 no lifers will defend EQ (Don't get me wrong, I fucking love EQ, or you wouldn't see me here) until its deathbed as the end all be all, but in reality, its really no different than most modern mmo's outside of a severe death penalty, stale combat, shitty graphics, and nostalgia.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by Calibix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played a ton of UO. Please elaborate on what specific builds you did that gimped you because there weren't any (at least when I played). Every melee build was viable, magic was viable, taming was viable. You had to make dedicated characters if you wanted to craft or treasure hunt, but outside of that anything you chose to do would have worked.

7x GM hally mage was pretty much THE build. Swords, Tacs, Wrestling, Magery, Eval, Resist, Med. Of course it other classes could work but this was the cookie cutter build of the game for the most part.

as for EQN Im torn on the game right now. Im going to need to see more before i decide if i want to hate on it or not

[Calibix]

Originally Posted by Phallax [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

7x GM hally mage was pretty much THE build. Swords, Tacs, Wrestling, Magery, Eval, Resist, Med. Of course it other classes could work but this was the cookie cutter build of the game for the most part.

as for EQN Im torn on the game right now. Im going to need to see more before i decide if i want to hate on it or not

Macer, Fencer, Archer, and Thief(maybe not to kill, but man they could steal your shit and sneak away like crazy) all viable in pvp vs Hally Mage. People just played hally mage the most because you could explosion flamestrike hally hit and do like 80 points of dmg off the get if you got good rolls. Those big numbers.

[khanable]

Originally Posted by Calibix [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I played a ton of UO. Please elaborate on what specific builds you did that gimped you because there weren't any (at least when I played). Every melee build was viable, magic was viable, taming was viable. You had to make dedicated characters if you wanted to craft or treasure hunt, but outside of that anything you chose to do would have worked.

You just proved my point. You had a specific set of skills you needed to be a warrior type, a bard type, and magic type, etc. Deviation from those resulted in a gimped character. You either had the template everyone was using for that type of class, or you were gimped or very role specific.

For example, a warrior type used:

-swords/fencing/maces skill (pick one)
-anatomy
-tactics
-magic resist
-healing
-magic
-parry/lumberjack (for 2h swords or something)

with 100str 90dex 35int (making you a mostly shit magic user that couldn't really do much of anything with it other than port yourself around)

iirc, that was the standard warrior type template (it's been like 14 years). Replace any of those with say, taming, and you're gimped.

Taming required it's own set of skills that you needed to max for it to be good. No combination of melee/taming was ever good. Hally (sword) mages were only somewhat decent in the early game, but after that, there were no good warrior-mage type builds.

This is why in UO people had multiple toons out the ass.

Want to dominate PVE type shit and get lots of gold? Bard type. Nothing else came close. There was 1 template that was basically used to excel at PVE shit. Everyone and their mother used the provocation-bard template as the standard PVE farming template.

What made UO great wasn't the way it did its skills - it was the layout of the entire game and the reliance you had on other players. No one would fish up high level treasure maps and then go clear out that dungeon with the same character, because that character would have been gimped.

Now remember, UO was a true sandbox where players actually controlled almost everything in the world. People played specific builds because they were NECESSARY for the world to continue. Carpenters furnished houses. PVE farmers farmed rares to sell in their merchant houses. Fisherman/cartographers farmed rares/maps for the pve people to go hunt treasure. Material collectors would farm materials to sell to the crafts people, who created armor and weapons for the pve farmers. Cooking people bought fish and meats from the fisherman/material collectors to make food (since it wasn't really avail in bulk from merchants). Everything was interconnected.

Modern MMO's we don't really see that - and unless EQN requires everyone to rely on everyone else in a very deep manner (I HIGHLY doubt it but am very hopeful), we're going to see 1-2 builds that going to be the 'best' at PVE stuff because not much else will really matter.

[Kender]

when sony first released star wars galaxies, it came with simply the best crafting system ever seen in any mmo to that point, or since. If EQ Next has as much attention to detail as that had it will be fantastic

Everything that was crafted used resources of varying quality. 2 T21 rifles made by the same person but not in a factory will probably have different stats. 2 rifles made by different people might have vastly different stats depending on the quality of resources that went into the manufacture

it meant that people who wanted to just craft could do so, and often their products were the best quality and in demand. If you put the time in to gather the best of everything (or pay people to go get them / buy of suppliers) then your product benefitted.

[Phallax]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You just proved my point. You had a specific set of skills you needed to be a warrior type, a bard type, and magic type, etc. Deviation from those resulted in a gimped character. You either had the template everyone was using for that type of class, or you were gimped or very role specific.

For example, a warrior type used:

-swords/fencing/maces skill (pick one)
-anatomy
-tactics
-magic resist
-healing
-magic
-parry/lumberjack (for 2h swords or something)

with 100str 90dex 35int (making you a mostly shit magic user that couldn't really do much of anything with it other than port yourself around)

iirc, that was the standard warrior type template (it's been like 14 years). Replace any of those with say, taming, and you're gimped.

Taming required it's own set of skills that you needed to max for it to be good. No combination of melee/taming was ever good. Hally (sword) mages were only somewhat decent in the early game, but after that, there were no good warrior-mage type builds.

This is why in UO people had multiple toons out the ass.

Want to dominate PVE type shit and get lots of gold? Bard type. Nothing else came close. There was 1 template that was basically used to excel at PVE shit. Everyone and their mother used the provocation-bard template as the standard PVE farming template.

What made UO great wasn't the way it did its skills - it was the layout of the entire game and the reliance you had on other players. No one would fish up high level treasure maps and then go clear out that dungeon with the same character, because that character would have been gimped.

Now remember, UO was a true sandbox where players actually controlled almost everything in the world. People played specific builds because they were NECESSARY for the world to continue. Carpenters furnished houses. PVE farmers farmed rares to sell in their merchant houses. Fisherman/cartographers farmed rares/maps for the pve people to go hunt treasure. Material collectors would farm materials to sell to the crafts people, who created armor and weapons for the pve farmers. Cooking people bought fish and meats from the fisherman/material collectors to make food (since it wasn't really avail in bulk from merchants). Everything was interconnected.

Modern MMO's we don't really see that - and unless EQN requires everyone to rely on everyone else in a very deep manner (I HIGHLY doubt it but am very hopeful), we're going to see 1-2 builds that going to be the 'best' at PVE stuff because not much else will really matter.

I would actually love to see a modern day EQ/UO mix game.

[liveitup1216]

Originally Posted by khanable [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and unless EQN requires everyone to rely on everyone else in a very deep manner (I HIGHLY doubt it but am very hopeful), we're going to see 1-2 builds that going to be the 'best' at PVE stuff because not much else will really matter.

To me this all hinges on how truly emergent the AI is. They state over and over regarding combat balance etc that if only a handful of builds are dominant, the AI will learn to react and counter it.

Truly adaptive AI would require different flavors of combat dynamics to succeed in the upper tiers. If they pull off this new AI, a group of players all using the same 1-3 builds would be effective at first until the AI changes their tactic and rolls you all for being too similar.

At least this is my hope.

[Razdeline]

I want hallywack mage!