Fulll Group looking for advice

[webrunner5]

The worse part of being a Shaman is getting the damn spells. Barb and Ogre both suck going to go get them if you are poor. If you are rich you can buy like 3 levels at a time of spells. I would just stay with a Cleric Druid combo. Having a porter/evacer is a godsend higher up. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] And a Druid in Outdoor zones is Golden.

Having both a Bard and a Enchanter in a group I think is not good. Same type of spell line except Bard heal song. Better to pick up a full time DPS. Hint, Human Monk. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Pyrion]

In a regular group a wizard will always be less valuable than a druid. Wizard can do 4 things: DD, Port and root and snare.
Druid can do all the above things + heal, charm, damage shield, regen, buff. Druid DD is only a bit worse then wizard DD for mana efficiency, more than made up with better utility and damage shields and almost unresistable dots for the really tough targets.

Wizards really need to be buffed. There is a reason why there are so few of them.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Pyrion [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In a regular group a wizard will always be less valuable than a druid. Wizard can do 4 things: DD, Port and root and snare.
Druid can do all the above things + heal, charm, damage shield, regen, buff. Druid DD is only a bit worse then wizard DD for mana efficiency, more than made up with better utility and damage shields and almost unresistable dots for the really tough targets.

Wizards really need to be buffed. There is a reason why there are so few of them.

In indoor dungeons (like what OP is proposing his group spend most its time in) the druid's utility is significantly lessened, and these all become less true as the group advances in levels and most of what a druid can do is overshadowed by what the other classes do better. Wizard nukes are really face-meltingly good as you advance, and they get stuns and spell interrupts. I would generally rather have a wizard than a druid in a setup where I already had 2 healers.

If you don't take the shaman, sure, do the druid... but why not take the shaman?

[Estu]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

In indoor dungeons (like what OP is proposing his group spend most its time in) the druid's utility is significantly lessened, and these all become less true as the group advances in levels and most of what a druid can do is overshadowed by what the other classes do better. Wizard nukes are really face-meltingly good as you advance, and they get stuns and spell interrupts. I would generally rather have a wizard than a druid in a setup where I already had 2 healers.

If you don't take the shaman, sure, do the druid... but why not take the shaman?

Wizard nukes are face-meltingly useless in groups, because your sustained DPS is beaten out by everyone that can contribute any other kind of DPS. Stuns can be useful but plenty of other classes have the ability to stun/interrupt and actually contribute something else to the group as well. Wizards are great in raids and AE groups and they're OK soloers. They are terrible in regular EXP groups.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Wizard nukes are face-meltingly useless in groups, because your sustained DPS is beaten out by everyone that can contribute any other kind of DPS. Stuns can be useful but plenty of other classes have the ability to stun/interrupt and actually contribute something else to the group as well. Wizards are great in raids and AE groups and they're OK soloers. They are terrible in regular EXP groups.

Maybe in a LOIO or OT mindless grind group, sure. I like them in situations where you will be in actual danger in a deep dungeon and are paying attention to other things than your damage-over-time counter. Seeing healing mobs reduced from 30% to 0% with one big blast is handy, for example. And of course they can evac.

But yes, if you are just grinding in the outdoors with all melee mobs, they do not shine. And a lot of people do that. I don't think that's what the OP wants, though.

That having been said a druid is fine there if that is your personal preference. They do a wider variety of things, just less well.

[Estu]

Originally Posted by thufir [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Maybe in a LOIO or OT mindless grind group, sure. I like them in situations where you will be in actual danger in a deep dungeon and are paying attention to other things than your damage-over-time counter. Seeing healing mobs reduced from 30% to 0% with one big blast is handy, for example. And of course they can evac.

But yes, if you are just grinding in the outdoors with all melee mobs, they do not shine. And a lot of people do that. I don't think that's what the OP wants, though.

That having been said a druid is fine there if that is your personal preference. They do a wider variety of things, just less well.

Evac's nice. Healing mobs can be dealt with just fine by other classes that have stuns and interrupts.

[Wudan]

Warrior
Cleric
Enchanter
Rogue
Monk
Wizard

[Tiddlywinks]

Play on red. Make having fun and killing other players your source of enjoyment from the game. Don't ever expect to enjoy raiding, even the select few who get to actually see pixel dragons hate their lives for having to hit a track button 24/7 and wake up at 4am in order to slay them. That is the only advice I can offer.

[Verityn]

The further advice and even the debates have been very useful. We talked it over a bit and we're leaning more on the Freeport area though we still haven't decided on the last 2 classes, but we are locked in with SK or Pal, Cleric, Bard, Enchanter so far. We'll make it work with whatever the last 2 people choose (please be a shaman because I'll need the buffs).

So my next issue which will seem small once we hit 20 is WTF do we do until we can just sit in a dungeon for tens of levels? Let us assume we're a couple dark elves and four humans. The dark elves get to level 5 or 6 on their own and we meet up in the commons. What are the options for a full group at levels 5 to 20 since they seem limited and slightly even more so with evil races? What level can we all go to Befallen or unrest (besides BB and CB they appear to be the lowest level dungeons) and expect to have enough doable content to grind exp on?

Once we hit 20 a lot more opens up like MM, lguk, Najena and then CT and Paw at 30.

[thufir]

Originally Posted by Verityn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The further advice and even the debates have been very useful. We talked it over a bit and we're leaning more on the Freeport area though we still haven't decided on the last 2 classes, but we are locked in with SK or Pal, Cleric, Bard, Enchanter so far. We'll make it work with whatever the last 2 people choose (please be a shaman because I'll need the buffs).

So my next issue which will seem small once we hit 20 is WTF do we do until we can just sit in a dungeon for tens of levels? Let us assume we're a couple dark elves and four humans. The dark elves get to level 5 or 6 on their own and we meet up in the commons. What are the options for a full group at levels 5 to 20 since they seem limited and slightly even more so with evil races? What level can we all go to Befallen or unrest (besides BB and CB they appear to be the lowest level dungeons) and expect to have enough doable content to grind exp on?

Once we hit 20 a lot more opens up like MM, lguk, Najena and then CT and Paw at 30.

Befallen is good from 6 on, although the pulls are tough - but it'll be good practice for your enchanter (and your bard too once he gets 8 and can lull). Most of the first floor is your oyster there, except for maybe skeleton Lrodd. Farm keys for level 2 while you're there.

Upper Guk has a lot of lower level frogs at the entrance, and because you need several people to kill them safely in the level band where they give good xp, they're usually around to be killed. You can probably do this around the same level range as when you would start Befallen (and your evil races will appreciate it).

Once you get to level 12ish you can move your group over to Unrest and do lawn trash, go to the 2nd floor of Befallen (dangerous but doable), or try and go slightly further into Upper Guk (tuk-level frogs will be right up your alley). CB and BB will still be OK for you at this level if you take the tougher camps in those zones. This is also a good level to go to Kurn's Tower if you don't mind the long walk to Kunark.

By 18 or so the better parts of Upper Guk will be opening up to you as well as the house in Unrest and maybe the 3rd floor of Befallen.

And as you have pointed out Crushbone and Blackburrow are good from about level 4 onwards if you have a full group.

Of course if the dungeons don't appeal to you, there's always the standard progression of orc camps, dervishes, and crocodiles throughout the Commonlands, North/South Ro, and the Oasis. Nobody ever kills the orcs in South Ro so that is good hunting in your lower levels. But why do that when you have a full group that will go to the dungeons with you? [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]