Analyzing bash via logs

[Tecmos Deception]

Intro

Ok. So. Me playing a troll shaman and there being a recent patchnote about bash changes and the never-ending debate over the best sham race finally motivated me to examine my logs closely. Here are me infoz and conclusions:


What is a "bash interrupt?"

Spells can be interrupted if you are hit with melee damage, pushed, or move, and then fail a channeling skill check. When this happens, your spellcast bar will count all the way down to 0 and then you will get the message that your spell was interrupted. These are normal interruptions.

A "bash interrupt" is a spell interruption caused by a certain type of bash. It isn't an interruption due to stun, or due to damage/push that you could potentially channel through. A "bash interrupt" INSTANTLY stops your spellcast bar and delivers the "your spell is interrupted" message when the bash hits, unlike the normal interruption types where your cast bar finishes before you receive the interrupt message.

This is pretty easy to notice happening if you are looking for it during normal gameplay.


More evidence it's a different kind of interrupt:

Here is the log of a bash that does not stun or interrupt:
[Wed Nov 06 06:10:45 2019] You crush an aviak guard for 18 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 06:10:46 2019] An aviak guard slashes YOU for 34 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 06:10:48 2019] An aviak guard bashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 06:10:49 2019] An aviak guard tries to slash YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 06:10:50 2019] You crush an aviak guard for 20 points of damage.


Here is the log of a bash that stuns to interrupt:
[Wed Nov 06 06:49:50 2019] You begin casting Spirit Strike.
[Wed Nov 06 06:49:51 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Wed Nov 06 06:49:51 2019] You are stunned!
[Wed Nov 06 06:49:51 2019] An aviak guard bashes YOU for 2 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 06:49:51 2019] An aviak guard tries to slash YOU, but misses!

Note that the interrupt and stun message appear above the bash message in the log, and this message comes well before the 2.5-second cast of Spirit Strike, which was begun at :50, could have finished.


Here is a log of me getting bashed and otherwise hit during a spellcast, but channeling successfully:
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:42 2019] You begin casting Spirit Strike.
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:42 2019] You can't use that command right now...
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:42 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:43 2019] An aviak guard bashes YOU for 6 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:44 2019] An aviak guard pierces YOU for 42 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:45 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:45 2019] an aviak guard was hit by non-melee for 81 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 07:03:45 2019] An aviak guard staggers as spirits of frost slam against them.


Here is the log of an interrupt caused by melee damage (which may or may not be a bash, but in this case it was a bash) and/or push, coupled with a failure to channel:
[Wed Nov 06 07:33:33 2019] You begin casting Spirit Strike.
[Wed Nov 06 07:33:33 2019] An aviak guard bashes YOU for 7 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 07:33:35 2019] Your spell is interrupted.

As you can see, the spell interruption message comes a couple seconds after the bash here, which is the point at which spirit strike finished attempting to cast. Note that the interrupt message appears AFTER the bash entry.


Here is the log of a "bash interrupt":
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:31 2019] You begin casting Spirit Strike.
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:31 2019] You can't use that command right now...
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:31 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:31 2019] An aviak guard tries to hit YOU, but misses!
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:31 2019] You can't use that command right now...
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:31 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:32 2019] Your spell is interrupted.
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:32 2019] An aviak guard bashes YOU for 8 points of damage.
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:32 2019] You can't use that command right now...
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:32 2019] You haven't recovered yet...
[Wed Nov 06 06:54:32 2019] You begin casting Spirit Strike.

And you see the spell interrupt message, without a stun message, appearing BEFORE the bash entry, before the 2.5-second spellcast could have finished.


Looking at the stats from my logs:
I looked at my logs for today with my 23-24 troll shaman on green, first fighting aviak guards (levels 16-20 I believe) and then fighting the level 20 barbarian fishermen in WK. I also had one crocodile attacking me at some point in lake rathe, and killed frostbite in WK once (both green cons).

Using gameparse, I learned that there were 353 total bash attempts against me. 158 were misses, 6 were dodged, 189 hit. Of the 189 hits, 42 stunned me, and of those 42 stuns, 9 times I had been trying to cast a spell. Of the 147 bashes that hit but did NOT stun me, 19 were "bash interrupts." Over the course of this, only 5 times did I get bashed while casting a spell and succeed in casting the spell.



Takeaway relevant to FSI:

I got bashed during a spellcast 32 times so far today. 9 of those times the bash stunned me, and therefore also interrupted my spell. 19 of those times the bash "bash interrupted" me. Only 5 times did I get bashed while casting and go on to finish that spellcast successfully.

An ogre would have not been stunned those 9 times. An ogre still would have been "bash interrupted" 19 times. And it is possible, though unknowable from my testing as a non-ogre, that some of those 9 bash stuns would also have been a "bash interrupt."

"Bash interrupt" penetrating FSI makes FSI significantly less potent than it used to be, assuming my few hours of sample size is remotely representative of the larger scheme. I think. Or something like that. I'd test more, except finding the times bash interrupts spells is a pain in the ass cause gameparse doesn't find them so I had to look for them more manually in the log file.

[Khorza]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Interrupt is caused by damage or being 'pushed'. If a mob punches you for 1 point of damage or bashes you for 1 point of damage.

Didn't Tecmos just prove this to be incorrect in the logs he posted above? He was instantly interrupted from bash damage, not the stun component.

By the way, I don't really remember being able to be interrupted via a melee attack (not push), or from a bash (not stun). Do you know of a link where this was researched? Because I couldn't find anything with a Google search. I'm very skeptical that these were ever mechanics in EQ, but hey I could be wrong.

(Edited this messaged for clarity, so it differs from the quoted response below)

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Khorza [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't Tecmos just prove this to be incorrect in the logs he posted above? He was instantly interrupted from a bash (but not the stun).

By the way, I don't really remember being able to be interrupted via a melee attack (not push), or from a bash (not stun). I'm going to assume a lot of research was done before this was implemented, but I'm also going to remain skeptical.

This is what I tried to tell him in game. He was kinda evasive by saying stuff like "well I'm never playing an ogre anyway" and "you know in classic it didn't work this way."

[Khorza]

Ogre is still the best shaman race btw.

[Baler]

Validity requires a pre-patch level 60 v post-patch level 60 comparison of extensive length.

But please feel free to argue about ogres for the 9000th time on the forums.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Validity requires a pre-patch level 60 v post-patch level 60 comparison of expensive length.

But please feel free to argue about ogres for the 9000th time on the forums.

I am not submitting this for a nobel prize. I think that the information I present is interesting, especially since I've been seeing a lot of different things claimed about FSI and bash but nobody having anything to back up their claims. I think this stuff suggests that ogres will be getting interrupted quite a bit more often by bashes now than they used to. I specify my character and level and mobs I'm facing and the amount of logs I examined because I know this isn't a pre-patch 60 vs a post-patch 60 with days worth of logs. But that doesn't mean what I put up here isn't worth consideration for those who have the interest. If I had an ogre, I would have tested an ogre.

There's no need to be grumpy just because you couldn't figure out how to explain why the logs and info I'm posting above matches your theory instead of mine. This post sounds like what my 8-year-old does when he can't figure out how to win an argument and mutters under his breath as he walks out of the room... lol

[Baler]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's no need to be grumpy just because you couldn't figure out how to explain why the logs and info I'm posting above matches your theory instead of mine.

I tried to explain to you in game how it functions but you wouldn't listen.

We can agree to disagree until valid proof is submitted.

[Wed Nov 06 13:22:54 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'my tldr based on my limited research is that fsi is only 1/3 as effective as it used to be'
[Wed Nov 06 13:23:08 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Though it's just 3 hours of logs to check so it's a small sample'
[Wed Nov 06 13:24:19 2019] You told Locomotive, 'at higher level I think you'll get interrupted less'
[Wed Nov 06 13:24:26 2019] You told Locomotive, 'Channeling is a big factor'
[Wed Nov 06 13:24:49 2019] You told Locomotive, 'because it's the damage. not the bash'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:07 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'No, read the post'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:13 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Bash interrupts in 3 different ways'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:13 2019] You told Locomotive, 'I skimmed it'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:30 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'It can stun you, which interrupts. It can be melee damage which you can possibly channel through or not. OR it can be a special interrupt'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:40 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'The special interrupt is what ogres are now affected by even with fsi'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:44 2019] You told Locomotive, 'I'm just saying without being level 50 or 60 with max skill. It's not a fair comparison'
[Wed Nov 06 13:25:57 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Bash interrupt isnt subject to channeling I dont think'
[Wed Nov 06 13:26:13 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you gotta seperate a few things mentally'
[Wed Nov 06 13:26:22 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Channeling lets you cast through damage and small push/movement. I dont believe it stops the instantaneous "bash interrupt" kind of interrupt'
[Wed Nov 06 13:26:33 2019] You told Locomotive, 'Bash does damage. damage vs a caster is calc with channeling'
[Wed Nov 06 13:26:47 2019] You told Locomotive, 'the stun part has nothing to do with interrupts'
[Wed Nov 06 13:26:53 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Go read more carefully. I address this'
[Wed Nov 06 13:27:03 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'The log file prints out differently depending on what kind of interrupt it is'
[Wed Nov 06 13:27:11 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you weren't getting interrupted Before the change. you were getting stunned.'
[Wed Nov 06 13:27:42 2019] You told Locomotive, 'This is the same reason people confuse it with frontal interrupt immunity'
[Wed Nov 06 13:27:48 2019] You told Locomotive, 'i've debated the shit out of this with people'
[Wed Nov 06 13:28:19 2019] You told Locomotive, 'a mob punches you for 1 point of damage while you're casting, it does an interrupt check'
[Wed Nov 06 13:28:25 2019] You told Locomotive, 'a mob bashes you for 1 point of damage while you're casting, it does an interrupt check'
[Wed Nov 06 13:28:45 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Seriously. I post 3 different log entries where I get bashed while casting. In 1, I channel it. In another, it interrupts but only after the spellcast finishes. In a 3rd, it interrupts instantly in the middle of the spellcast'
[Wed Nov 06 13:28:55 2019] You told Locomotive, 'But you're not level 60'
[Wed Nov 06 13:29:03 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'What does that have to do with it?'
[Wed Nov 06 13:29:09 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you're going off information that's based on level 60'
[Wed Nov 06 13:29:21 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you can't compare a level 24 ogre shaman to a level 60 ogre shaman'
[Wed Nov 06 13:29:29 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'im not. I acknowledge that'
[Wed Nov 06 13:29:43 2019] You told Locomotive, 'but people won't understand'
[Wed Nov 06 13:30:09 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'This is all besides the point. The real point is there is a type of interrupt caused by bash that is different than the kind that you can channel through'
[Wed Nov 06 13:34:31 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you still take damage from bash as an ogre right? lol'
[Wed Nov 06 13:34:41 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'I assume so'
[Wed Nov 06 13:35:28 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'I just find it very interesting the different ways that it can play out if you get bashed while casting'
[Wed Nov 06 13:36:32 2019] You told Locomotive, 'Bash also moves you I think'
[Wed Nov 06 13:36:38 2019] You told Locomotive, 'like kick'
[Wed Nov 06 13:36:43 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Or any melee hit, yeah'
[Wed Nov 06 13:37:38 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Do you see what Im saying about channeling being a nonfactor sometimes? I post a log where I an interrupted from the bash because it is melee damage and I do not channel. And I post the log of a successful channel after a bash'
[Wed Nov 06 13:37:42 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'But here's a 3rd type of log'
[Wed Nov 06 13:37:51 2019] You told Locomotive, 'I saw that but I disagree'
[Wed Nov 06 13:37:56 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Where the bash instantly interrupts the spell, instead of not interrupting until the end of the spellcast'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:00 2019] You told Locomotive, 'I mean'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:03 2019] You told Locomotive, 'I agree'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:21 2019] You told Locomotive, 'channeling isnt a factor if your character moves'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:27 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Yes it is'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:35 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'You can channel when you move and are not being hit at all'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:45 2019] You told Locomotive, 'if your character moves from being pushed you're not in the same XY coordinates'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:47 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'small movements when not in combat can cause a channeling message to appear'
[Wed Nov 06 13:38:59 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you must be in the same X/Y loc for the spell to go off'
[Wed Nov 06 13:39:15 2019] You told Locomotive, 'this is the same reason you can cast a spelll run around, move back to the starting spot and the spell goes off'
[Wed Nov 06 13:40:44 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Hmm. I was pretty sure I've channeled through small movements before when not in combat at all'
[Wed Nov 06 13:40:57 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'just did it'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:06 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'So no. you're wrong :P'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:13 2019] You told Locomotive, 'im not wrong'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:19 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'I started sow, inches forward, got "You regain your concentratino and continue your casting." and it cast'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:21 2019] You told Locomotive, 'there is small room for movement'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:26 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Yes you are. I literally just proved you're wrong. Lol'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:30 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Thats what I just said dude'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:37 2019] You told Locomotive, 'but you get pushed you can't finish the cast'
[Wed Nov 06 13:41:46 2019] You told Locomotive, 'you're not in the same spot you started the cast'
[Wed Nov 06 13:42:24 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'You're talking nonsense now. You said you have to be at the exact same spot to cast. I said no, you can channel through small movements. Then I just demonstrated ingame and will send you the log or repeat on video. Now you're saying "oh well yeah, you can do small movements"'
[Wed Nov 06 13:42:30 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Do you see how you're confusing me? Lol'
[Wed Nov 06 13:42:55 2019] You told Locomotive, 'honestly I'll never play an ogre so it will never affect me :P'
[Wed Nov 06 13:43:19 2019] You told Locomotive, 'it just seems like people want to argue about ogres'
[Wed Nov 06 13:43:50 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Im not talking about ogres at the moment. You claimed channeling isnt a factor if you move. I just showed ingame that it is. Im curious how you explain that :)'
[Wed Nov 06 13:44:53 2019] You told Locomotive, 'I think the case I was making was about movement'
[Wed Nov 06 13:44:55 2019] Locomotive tells you, '[Wed Nov 06 13:40:53 2019] You begin casting Spirit of Wolf.  [Wed Nov 06 13:40:58 2019] You regain your concentration and continue your casting.  [Wed Nov 06 13:40:58 2019] You feel the spirit of wolf enter you.'
[Wed Nov 06 13:45:08 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'Nothing going on but me casting and walking forward a bit during the spellcast'
[Wed Nov 06 13:45:14 2019] You told Locomotive, 'it's not classic btw'
[Wed Nov 06 13:45:30 2019] Locomotive tells you, 'You're evading :P'
[Wed Nov 06 13:45:39 2019] You told Locomotive, 'on emulator you can cast, move around, go back to your cast spot and it goes off normal'
[Wed Nov 06 13:45:47 2019] You told Locomotive, 'on live you'd of failed the cast'

TL : DR: 3 ways to get interrupted.
Bash Stun
Bash Damage - Affected by channeling
Bashe Push - Affected by channeling without being pushed too far.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by Baler [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

TL : DR: 3 ways to get interrupted.
Bash Stun
Bash Damage - Affected by channeling
Bashe Push - Affected by channeling without being pushed too far.

Normal damage can interrupt too, right? And it displays the interruption message after your spellcast bar completes. Normal damage can push and thereby interrupt too, right? And it displays the interruption mesage after your spellcast bar completes.

You're suggesting that it's just a coincidence that what I call "bash interrupt" appears differently in the logs and stops your cast differently in game even though it is, according to you, operating in the same manner as normal melee damage interruptions?

Why doesn't normal melee damage that causes an interrupt cut off your cast bar in mid-cast and display an interrupt message in the log in front of the damage message like it happens with bash? You REALLY think that's just blind luck that it got oddly programmed that way, rather than that bash instantly interrupting is different than melee damage interrupts or push interrupts?

[Baler]

Originally Posted by Tecmos Deception [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

operating in the same manner as normal melee damage interruptions?

Nah it uses some other bash formula the staff came up with and I agree there.

[ansar]

Nice to see some actual numbers to explain things vs just saying how someone thinks it works.