Implementing a basic, and I mean BASIC AA System?

[falkun]

Originally Posted by Acillatem [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

as well as randomizing initial Tier distribution. By making a "random" prerequisite, you randomize the player pool so that not every WIZ goes Run3/Regen3/Mental Clarity3/Manaburn from the get-go. Using WIZ racing to Manaburn as an example, with randomization, might instead look like this:

WIZ 1: Innate CR3 /Regen3/ Spell Casting Subtelety3 /Mental Clarity3/ Exodus /Manaburn
WIZ 2: Innate STR3 /Regen3/ Spell Casting Fury3 /Mental Clarity3/ Quick Evac3 /Manaburn.

You've now "customized" the 2 wizards by forcing one to be inherently inferior to another. The reason those initial paths were picked is because it was proven to provide the biggest bang for the AA point.

My issue with the AA system is:
1) You could get them all.
2) They greatly improved some classes (RNG EQ+AM3, BRD FM, WIZ crit)
3) Some were downright overpowered: 6 MB wizard groups in Kunark = gg

But I'm not sure I would be unbiased enough to make the judgment call for "class defining/improving" versus "overpowered" AAs.

[Ferok]

Manaburn had a use-case that needed to be dealt with. Aside from that, it was hardly overpowered. It was eventually nerfed, and was no longer an issue.

[Picked]

Originally Posted by falkun [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You've now "customized" the 2 wizards by forcing one to be inherently inferior to another. The reason those initial paths were picked is because it was proven to provide the biggest bang for the AA point.

My issue with the AA system is:
1) You could get them all.
2) They greatly improved some classes (RNG EQ+AM3, BRD FM, WIZ crit)
3) Some were downright overpowered: 6 MB wizard groups in Kunark = gg

But I'm not sure I would be unbiased enough to make the judgment call for "class defining/improving" versus "overpowered" AAs.

Ya it may have "intended" to be a customization tool but like I said if they made it where you couldn't get certain AA's because you chose a different AA then there is validity to that. Doesn't matter how hard they were to get, that doesn't really change anything. Certainly doesn't change the fact that some AA's gave a lot more bang for their buck and were bought first by 99.9% of the population. That isn't customization. It's progression. Everyone could have them all. Whether or not they did is beside the point.

Originally Posted by Ferok [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Manaburn had a use-case that needed to be dealt with. Aside from that, it was hardly overpowered. It was eventually nerfed, and was no longer useful at all.

There fixed it for you! I hated the change. It was one thing Wizards were known for. Outside of MB and ports there wasn't much of a parade to be had.

[Reiker000]

Originally Posted by Picked [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ya I don't get the whole "cats on the moon" reference myself. I thought Luclin had some of the best raiding of all the expansions in EQ. It was diverse. You had Sseru, Emperor Ssrarzha, THO, The Burrower, XTC, those all dropped great loot. Then you have Vex Thael, while I admit was a little monotonous it was still pretty damn fun. Not to mention the cool loot it had.

There was a ton of items people pined for out of VT. Wasn't the same old, increased stats, +hp + mana stuff. It was cool effects, cool graphics.

Well, you see, people call Luclin "cats on the moon" because the expansion featured primarily a race of cat people living on the moon. Which of course, is ridiculous.

Some of Luclin was fun, some of it was awful. I would put LIS in the awful category. So many farming time sinks just to get to the fight, then you pretty much stare at a wall for an hour until it's dead. The fight was pretty hectic for a shaman and it was still boring. It's probably the single best "shaman" fight of the game though, requiring you to juggle a 3 minute slow / curse cures / dps (dots) / canni / torpor for a long time. I'd always be in the top three of dps charts while also keeping up slows/heals/cure/etc.

Ssra (the entire zone) was really fun, no complaints. This was the gem of Luclin.

VT was so awful I don't even want to talk about it. What a piece of shit ending. Up there with Druzzil's "lol I send u back in time nothing u did happened but u keep lewtz etc trololol"

[Ferok]

Luclin also didn't trivialize old world content, which is key I think. Planes of Power, on the other hand, made anything not Planes of Power largely irrelevant.

AA's, such as they were, really just allowed for minor progression of a character. They were no more game altering than equipment upgrades, which aren't available at a certain point. At least, in Luclin.

On the topic of custom content, I think as long as you keep the level capped at 60 and don't go about implementing a ton of game-breaking droppable items, you're in good shape for keeping things classic, or at least keeping classic-era dungeons/raids relevant. I don't think AA's break anything.

But this is all well after Velious, IMO.

[Kope]

To put in Luclin with a classic feel you'd also have to drastically lower the ZEMs of any luclin zone so the leveling feel stays the same as well.

[Picked]

Originally Posted by Reiker000 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well, you see, people call Luclin "cats on the moon" because the expansion featured primarily a race of cat people living on the moon. Which of course, is ridiculous.

Some of Luclin was fun, some of it was awful. I would put LIS in the awful category. So many farming time sinks just to get to the fight, then you pretty much stare at a wall for an hour until it's dead. The fight was pretty hectic for a shaman and it was still boring. It's probably the single best "shaman" fight of the game though, requiring you to juggle a 3 minute slow / curse cures / dps (dots) / canni / torpor for a long time. I'd always be in the top three of dps charts while also keeping up slows/heals/cure/etc.

Ssra (the entire zone) was really fun, no complaints. This was the gem of Luclin.

VT was so awful I don't even want to talk about it. What a piece of shit ending. Up there with Druzzil's "lol I send u back in time nothing u did happened but u keep lewtz etc trololol"

Cat race being the Kerran's or whatever it was? I'm so used to the Vah Shir being referred too as cats but they didn't come out until LoYkesha right? Or am I more effed up than a pile of coat hangers here?

I do agree VT was painful at times, but to me that's what generated the most fun. Sitting in a room clearing for hours brings up a lot of funny stuff and comical ways to kill the time. It's like grinding you don't know somebody very well on an MMO until you have been in a grind group with them for 4 or 5 hours straight. When it's just wham bam thank you mam and get your loots there really isn't a lot of time for that. Which most people find value in. To each his own I suppose.

But yes I agree Ssra temple was the gem of Luclin. Would be nice to reverse the loots and difficulty of VT with Ssra temple. Get the VT items off the name in Ssra and the other things from Ssra drop in VT. Of course the annoying key can be cut in half as well if u ask me

[Brutal_X]

Vah Shir came in Luclin :P

[Picked]

lol that explains a LOT then! haha it's just been too long ago. I have a hard time remembering what I did yesterday let alone 12 years ago

[Acillatem]

Originally Posted by falkun

You've now "customized" the 2 wizards by forcing one to be inherently inferior to another. The reason those initial paths were picked is because it was proven to provide the biggest bang for the AA point.

Looking at the allocation of the first 25ish AAs, ya one had a better run of the dice, but I'm not saying that should be the AA cap, I was just using an example of 2 WIZ racing for Manaburn. After that they could go get other AAs, and in conjunction with a cap, would probably have SIMILAR AA paths, with small differences (ie the Innate CR for example).

If you limit the number of AAs by TYPE (ie General/Archtype/Class), you force people to make decisions. And if ONE of those decisions is random, it still allows people to get SOME of what they want while at the same time differentiating yourself from most of the others of your class type in some small way.