40 day raid ban

[loramin]

Ok first, on the staff bashing, I'm putting it in a provocative way because I'm trying to make a point: I'm not trying to bait anyone to say Rogean is a moron. But what I do expect is for someone to respond to is the fact that:

A) smart people made the rules
B) people are claiming (do I really have to go back and quote this?) that it's impossible to raid at an A/A level without getting suspensions.
C) that sounds like some pretty dumb rules

So the reason I keep coming back to "Rogean and Sirken aren't morons" isn't because I want someone to bash them, it's because I want someone to address A, B, or C. Clearly one of them is false. I'm saying it's B), but it's fine if you disagree ... just disagree by addressing the issue (A and C), don't just keep pretending like some really smart people created some really dumb rules for no reason. There's plenty of ways to say "the rules are flawed here: ____" without calling Rogean an idiot.

As for all the stuff about how dumb I am, every time anyone debates the raid scene A/A (or TMO; yes I've been here awhile) attacks everyone who isn't "on their level". Shooting the messenger doesn't kill the message. Don't tell me how dumb and ignorant I am, just do something which should be super easy if what you're claiming is true: provide some evidence that it's impossible to raid top content without breaking the rules (on purpose or not).

[Tupakk]

Being dumb and acting dumb are two different things. You are currently acting dumb for the sake of not wanting to be dumb.

Don’t goto TOV to watch you will get Anon raid banned because you will undoubtedly make a mistake.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Check12345 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok no problem, here's the rub, I get it. We are trying to pull one raid target out of a train of, say >40 mobs. The potential melee damage output of that train is insane.

It's not about a simple train to zone out. Its picking off a target from that train, getting it in to camp to kill, and then safely dropping the train before they figure out where the trainers/secondaries went and mass murder the zone in. (Basically speaking)

When it goes off the rails, folks are going to die.

When done correctly, it's a thing of pure beauty and good feels team work.

Just tag along one night, ToV is an open zone.

First can I just say thank you for engaging the topic and not just insulting me? Sincere kudos to you.

So again, I'm an ignorant moron who knows nothing: can you please explain why you have to pull one mob out of the train (ie. why there's no other way to pull that mob), and why that train has to hit other guilds when something goes wrong? It seems to me that other pulling styles might be possible (but might be less competitive), so I'm genuinely asking: is it truly impossible to pull that mob any other way, and then impossible to avoid having it train people if the pull fails?

[Tupakk]

https://youtu.be/cjIvu7e6Wq8

Watch this whole video and raiding will be a explained to you.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can (very easily) convince me that I'm not an experienced raider, but you can't convince me that the rules here are so complex, so convoluted, and so hard-to-understand that it is impossible for a guild to compete for top content without breaking those rules.

If you believe that you're essentially saying that Rogean and Sirken are so stupid they made the server rules impossible to follow, and I don't think they're that stupid.

There has been maybe 15 suspensions between A/A. At least 5 of them are not from each other. If you think about how many mobs we have killed in 2+ years, week in and week out, id vie to say that we "compete for top content without breaking those rules" far more often than not.

Its just like anything else. You never hear about the good shit on the news, you only hear the bad. Does that mean that there is no good in this world? I hope not.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being dumb and acting dumb are two different things. You are currently acting dumb for the sake of not wanting to be dumb.

The "acting dumb for the sake of not wanting to be dumb" doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but look Hanlon's Razor man:

(although in this case I'd prefer the word "ignorance" over "stupidity" ...)

Originally Posted by Hanlon's Razor

Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for someone to explain why you have to break the rules to raid (Check12345 is the only one who even seems to be trying).

And I'm still waiting for someone to resolve the central paradox (without staff bashing please): if Rogean and Sirken are smart (unlike me) and do (also unlike me) know a lot about raiding, and if they did indeed write the rules ... and if it is indeed impossible to raid at an A/A level (but not at a lower level) without at least accidentally breaking those rules ... why did Rogean/Sirken make them that way?

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Tupakk [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

https://youtu.be/cjIvu7e6Wq8

Watch this whole video and raiding will be a explained to you.

I just went to her concert a couple months ago (wife is a big fan).

[Check12345]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

can you please explain why you have to pull one mob out of the train (ie. why there's no other way to pull that mob), and why that train has to hit other guilds when something goes wrong?

Ok np, this just comes down to what to do with all the mobs between the raid target and the kill camp. They have to go somewhere for a bit while the dragon is pulled from his spawn point to the chosen kill spot, which currently is the entrance for ToV.

The rest is just manipulating the ancient hate list mechanic we have in eq.

If things go wrong, sometimes some/all of the train will hit the entrance, and if your guild is there you will get wiped.

I want to say it happened with A/A at least once every other cycle or so.

[loramin]

Originally Posted by Detoxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There has been maybe 15 suspensions between A/A. At least 5 of them are not from each other. If you think about how many mobs we have killed in 2+ years, week in and week out, id vie to say that we "compete for top content without breaking those rules" far more often than not.

Its just like anything else. You never hear about the good shit on the news, you only hear the bad. Does that mean that there is no good in this world? I hope not.

All I've ever said in this entire conversation is that it's possible for guild leaders to make choices and avoid getting their guild suspended. I never said (or at least meant to say) that A/A was banned all the time or anything like that, and if I did I recant it.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by loramin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Meanwhile I'm still waiting for someone to explain why you have to break the rules to raid (Check12345 is the only one who even seems to be trying).

And I'm still waiting for someone to resolve the central paradox (without staff bashing please): if Rogean and Sirken are smart (unlike me) and do (also unlike me) know a lot about raiding, and if they did indeed write the rules ... and if it is indeed impossible to raid at an A/A level (but not at a lower level) without at least accidentally breaking those rules ... why did Rogean/Sirken make them that way?

Are you deliberately being a troll here? You do not have to break the rules to raid, as you can see 96% of the time these raids are done without an issue and no rules are broken. The problem is...sometimes shit goes wrong and a rule gets broken (unintentionally).

Its like working at a chemical plant. 98% of the time the Operator does their job and does it well. Everyone is safe, everyone is happy. Then the next day a mistake is made and shit gets real bad. Did that person WANT to make a mistake and put peoples lives and their own at risk? I highly doubt it

So I reiterate...mistakes happen. It doesnt mean they are done on purpose. Actually, a mistake is the antithesis of something being done on purpose.