ToV and pulling mobs.

[arsenalpow]

Keeping targets within each wing along with only a finite number of safe spots will create a raid scene so absurd that no one will win. It will be leapfrogs and trains and accusations of impropriety and all kinds of underhanded shit.

[Pint]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Keeping targets within each wing along with only a finite number of safe spots will create a raid scene so absurd that no one will win. It will be leapfrogs and trains and accusations of impropriety and all kinds of underhanded shit.

Or it will keep the guilds who cannot compete out of the way and remove the mayhem they are causing from what is alrdy an absurd situation. Ntov is full of places to set up a raid to not be trained, you simply have to clear that area. Even the aary spot in question requires clearing of flurry drakes and static mobs before it can be utilized. Frankly you guys do not know what you're talking about bc you have not taken the time to enter the wing with a raid force and work out how to play inside the wing, instead you want to hang out at the west zone out and train the entire zone for some lucky dragon snipes.

[arsenalpow]

So "compete" but do it your way or it's no longer competition, it's mayhem. Stop being obtuse. The fundamental issue is the overcrowded raid scene, there's never been a situation where 6-8 guilds could be in North simultaneously if they so chose. We need a better solution than no pulling outside of wings when the limited number of safe spots ensures that everyone will be screwed if too many guilds decide to "compete"

Also we don't hang out at west generally.

[Pint]

There is nothing obtuse about not wanting to be trained by a guild who is not even in the same wing of a very large zone as you. Even if your guilds were capable of successfully getting the dragon put of these trains and killing more than 1/10 tries, you still cannot control the train after the dragon is split which is a clear violation of the rules alrdy in place. You guys are refusing to move forward with a simple solution bc you're holding out for more concessions to make things easier for you, concessions that are extremely unlikely to materialize with rampage in the game.

[Erati]

damnit BDA took over this thread too

So a Lord in NTOV spawns- 4 guilds are at the Ikky/Eashen stairs

There are drakes that guard the Lords which have to be killed. Why is it unreasonable to have agreements surrounding those guards which unlock engagements on the named ?

If we kill flurry drake guards you better believe the named will then be pulled out right after

[Pint]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

damnit BDA took over this thread too

So a Lord in NTOV spawns- 4 guilds are at the Ikky/Eashen stairs

There are drakes that guard the Lords which have to be killed. Why is it unreasonable to have agreements surrounding those guards which unlock engagements on the named ?

If we kill flurry drake guards you better believe the named will then be pulled out right after

It is not unreasonable at all but it is a perfect example of sandbagging the issue at hand to try and push an agenda instead of solving the issue that the thread is actually addressing. Or were you going to pull those guards to wtov first then kill the dragon?

Also why the fuck am I having to defend server rules that have been rules for years in this thread. Why are we going to pretend like Chest doesn't understand rules that everyone has known and been abiding by for YEARS.

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not unreasonable at all but it is a perfect example of sandbagging the issue at hand to try and push an agenda instead of solving the issue that the thread is actually addressing. Or were you going to pull those guards to wtov first then kill the dragon?

Also why the fuck am I having to defend server rules that have been rules for years in this thread. Why are we going to pretend like Chest doesn't understand rules that everyone has known and been abiding by for YEARS.

I am not sand bagging anything - Rampage hasnt even bothered to comment on this thread at all

how can we agree ( all the guilds here ) to anything before they say hello?

The entire point I am making and please dont misconstrue it- Once an agreement like this is made, it seems very unlikely it will ever get undone and thusly we will forever be locked with killing dragons in the wing they spawn ( KIWIS - Kill In Wing It Spawns ) and then doubly locked in when they classically perma root some of the Lords and other dragons.

So while we are here to make ToV a better place - I feel the KIWIS rule needs to come hand and in with some kind of engagement understanding as leap frogging will take over as the 'new training'.

If you dont believe me well you were not in NTOV during the first Velious sim repop. Its all about who can clear the drake guards for the other guild.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It is not unreasonable at all but it is a perfect example of sandbagging the issue at hand to try and push an agenda instead of solving the issue that the thread is actually addressing. Or were you going to pull those guards to wtov first then kill the dragon?

Also why the fuck am I having to defend server rules that have been rules for years in this thread. Why are we going to pretend like Chest doesn't understand rules that everyone has known and been abiding by for YEARS.

The only person pushing an agenda is you Pint. You want to be rewarded for socking right near the mob spawn and you want to stop anyone from pulling anywhere near you. You made a camp at a bottleneck then screamed when mobs walked through there. It's being willfully ignorant.

Trak vs ToV is apples to fucking oranges, stop trying to frame the argument for the purposes of ForumQuest. I'm interested in relevant rules that don't boil down to "sock the mob" and I have absolutely no interest in rhetoric like "leapfrogging is raiding, learn to compete nub"

Y'all let me know when you'd like to have an actual conversation about how to solve the problem, until then BDA will abide by the initial agreement.

[Erati]

another idea - for NTOV mobs

raid forces must be parked at the zone in - and we COH race for them all

if we cant pull mobs out of the wing - we then remove the advantage of socking. Lets race for em all

This way guilds cant be trained by being set up too close bc we would be all be actively racing / setting up.

[Detoxx]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

"Control the train" has always referred to not dropping the adds on a waiting raid force. Anytime Detoxx has screamed train from a BDA kill it's been because mobs have pathed back (unaggroed) and hey caught aggro. The rule isn't "take the mobs back to where you found them" You know that.

I think you've lost your mind. To insinuate that it is not the responsibility of the person pulling a massive train, peeling a mob, dropping the train or sometimes even the mob, is just mind boggling. My mage would not have agroed any mobs had you not trained them all the way past our camp, flopped them and then failed the pull letting not only the train path back, but Ikatiar.

Try to use some common sense.