OFFICIAL PROPOSAL from FE/TMO

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Alarti0001 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Because guilds as a whole(representing raiders) have signed off on this one.

Some joke agreement that you and FE/IB came up with does not constitute multiple guilds reaching a consensus. BDA and Taken endorsed a point system. Why is that not an official proposal?

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by Bossman [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No offense Deru, but that's BS. How is this "official" proposal given more levity than any of the proposals that were discussed (namely point system)?

Let everybody get together as hash this out, not discuss with TMO behind closed doors.

It wasn't. If you guys want to try and work something else out, go ahead. Hence my post. Nothing is 'official' until all of you guys agree on it.

Personally I feel this is a fair agreement. The only concession I would try to make if I wasn't a 'category A' guild would be to drop inny and fay to de-prioritized targets.

[Turp_SmokinPurp]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only concession I would try to make if I wasn't a 'category A' guild would be to drop inny and fay to de-prioritized targets.

This should already be in the writing. Or people sending tells to these leaders to get it wrote up.
I agree. Even if its just Inny one month an fay the next (back an forth). They are getting tons of raid mobs left up with this proposal. Way more than before , and it gives every lower guild a big chance at mobs. + they have the chance to steal our mobs still too.
But for some reason it just seems like nothing but a full blown rotation (forced by GM's) will make these people happy.

[Bossman]

Originally Posted by Turp_SmokinPurp [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This should already be in the writing. Or people sending tells to these leaders to get it wrote up.
I agree. Even if its just Inny one month an fay the next (back an forth). They are getting tons of raid mobs left up with this proposal. Way more than before , and it gives every lower guild a big chance at mobs.
But for some reason it just seems like nothing but a full blown rotation (forced by GM's) will make these people happy.

Hard to complete other epic without VS. Maybe "these people" are tired of a small percentage of server population telling is what we can and cannot do.

[Scoresby]

I think a revision to this proposal which seems more fair to the server is.

GroupA - TMO and FE/IB
GroubB - Everyone Else

Priority Targets (can be focused on by GroupA) - All of VP
Non-Priority Target (cannot be focused on by GroupA) - The rest of the raid mobs

If you manage to achieve 25% or more of the kills in VP in a month, you are considered GroupA.

The first week of the month, GroupA can compete with GroupB for all targets. The remainder of the month, non-priority targets are not killed by GroupA.

Poopsocking in all its forms are from here forward a bannable offense. The definition of poopsocking is having a raid character in the zone at the spawn point of a boss (either actively playing or logged out). I would suspect a few fraps of this would fix people from using this tactic?

In all seriousness...

Some of this is a hyperbolic attempt at pointing out how ridiculous the initial proposal seems. The poopsocking idea I do think should go forward. I can't imagine how the top tier raiders feel there is realistic competition in having alts camped out at the boss. There is no rush to engage, it's just phone a friend and kill a dragon. You will not ever have serious "competition" if those are the lengths you must go to.

At the end of the day, bigger compromise is needed between the top tier and less hardcore raid guilds. This server is VERY mature in terms of where we are expansion wise vs age of the server. There are significantly more guilds capable of downing a raid target than any server ever experienced on live. Because of that there need to be serious concessions to keep a healthy server.

I think the biggest thing lurking in the back of my mind is honestly how many more Trak/VS kills do TMO/FE/IB (especially TMO) honestly need to be competitive. I would venture it's a very small number.

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you are a guild leader or an officer with the power to represent your guild and do not like this proposal, you should be contacting Unbrella and Zagum and working out a time where you can either A) talk about your proposal or B) make modifications to this one.

So we're to take from this that this is the official new set of rules unless TMO and/or FEIB agree to another proposal? Despite them getting all of VP and 3/4 of Trak/VS/etc? This proposal is pretty much garbage, and it's pretty frustrating to see a GM propping it up before it's clear whether anyone outside of FE/IB (one raid, one voice?) and TMO are buying it.

[Derubael]

Originally Posted by DrKvothe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So we're to take from this that this is the official new set of rules unless TMO and/or FEIB agree to another proposal? Despite them getting all of VP and 3/4 of Trak/VS/etc? This proposal is pretty much garbage, and it's pretty frustrating to see a GM propping it up before it's clear whether anyone outside of FE/IB (one raid, one voice?) and TMO are buying it.

No, you guys all need to agree on something. As per Sirken's post, if an agreement isn't reached by the 2nd, everyone is raid suspended until you do.

We aren't going to 'sanction' anything until everyone is in agreement.

[Ecguy]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you guys all need to agree on something. As per Sirken's post, if an agreement isn't reached by the 2nd, everyone is raid suspended until you do.

We aren't going to 'sanction' anything until everyone is in agreement.

I am curious what constitutes everyone. That would be pretty important for continued discussion.

[JayN]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you guys all need to agree on something. As per Sirken's post, if an agreement isn't reached by the 2nd, everyone is raid suspended until you do.

We aren't going to 'sanction' anything until everyone is in agreement.

But that is infact exactly what you are doing sir, by letting people who do not raid dictate to people who do raid; they gain nothing by agreeing to any kind of terms.

[DrKvothe]

Originally Posted by Derubael [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, you guys all need to agree on something. As per Sirken's post, if an agreement isn't reached by the 2nd, everyone is raid suspended until you do.

We aren't going to 'sanction' anything until everyone is in agreement.

OK, thank you. Realized how rude my post was after I submitted, so thank you for your polite response.

Would the GMs consider an agreement without TMO and/or FEIB's approval if BDA, Taken, AG, Europa, Divinity, etc. are all on board? Seems like at this point, FEIB and TMO might pull some Republican bullshit and shut everything down if we don't agree to their terms.