Enchanter CHA

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Slave your problem is that your math is leading you to crazy places and rather than activating your common sense and going back and checking your assumptions you are continuing to believe in it.

I think your 10 minutes/2400 damage are both wrong (charmed pets hit for 140, not 200, they don't always DW/DA, they don't always hit for max damage, I stun and take an average of 2 rounds, etc. Of course, sometimes you get interrupted or bashed and then things get ugly).

But anyway the specific numbers you picked aren't the problem, your problem is that your reasoning itself is wrong, starting here:



Under your assumptions you'll take 2400 damage per break, which will happen 1% less often. So you'll take 2400 damage every 10.1 minutes rather than 10 minutes. This is hardly a huge win, and certainly does not imply "A potential of TWENTY FOUR THOUSAND DAMAGE".

2400 damage per break, no. That is not what the 2400 damage comes from.

2400 damage is the damage you save in 6 seconds, the time that you (would have, if mobs did 200 per swing, sorry) gain(ed) every 10-minute charm session PER ONE PERCENT DIFFERENCE.

It's still over a 1,600 damage potential for every 1% difference in duration if the maximum that a charmed mob can hit for is 140.


edit: changed 16,000 to 1,600 in final sentence

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2400 damage per break, no. That is not what the 2400 damage comes from.

2400 damage is the damage you save in 6 seconds, the time that you (would have, if mobs did 200 per swing, sorry) gain(ed) every 10-minute charm session PER ONE PERCENT DIFFERENCE.

It's still over a 1,600 damage potential for every 1% difference in duration if the maximum that a charmed mob can hit for is 140.


edit: changed 16,000 to 1,600 in final sentence

Slave what you are saying just does not make sense. Let me try an example and see if this works for you. Lets use your numbers: 2400 damage in 6 seconds, 10 minutes of charm, 10.1 minutes for the guy with 255cha.

Our timeline:

0 seconds: Enchanter A (200 cha) and Enchanter B (255) both charm a mob
600 seconds: Enchanter A's charm breaks
606 seconds: Enchanter A has taken 2400 damage but has the pet under control again.
606 seconds: Enchanter B's charm breaks
612 seconds: Enchanter B has taken 2400 damage but has the pet under control again

So at this point A and B have taken exactly the same amount of damage. By the time B has suffered 100 breaks, A will have suffered 101, thus taking exactly 1% more damage.

Your math only makes sense if A sits around getting beat on until B's charm breaks. I don't think I can explain this any better than I am now, so if you still think your math is correct we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Slave]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Slave what you are saying just does not make sense. Let me try an example and see if this works for you. Lets use your numbers: 2400 damage in 6 seconds, 10 minutes of charm, 10.1 minutes for the guy with 255cha.

Our timeline:

0 seconds: Enchanter A (200 cha) and Enchanter B (255) both charm a mob
600 seconds: Enchanter A's charm breaks
606 seconds: Enchanter A has taken 2400 damage but has the pet under control again.
606 seconds: Enchanter B's charm breaks
612 seconds: Enchanter B has taken 2400 damage but has the pet under control again

So at this point A and B have taken exactly the same amount of damage. By the time B has suffered 100 breaks, A will have suffered 101, thus taking exactly 1% more damage.

Your math only makes sense if A sits around getting beat on until B's charm breaks. I don't think I can explain this any better than I am now, so if you still think your math is correct we'll have to agree to disagree.

What you just said is that for each 1% less that charm time you have, you will take 1% more damage. In this case, many have (unscientifically) reported experiencing a 10% (or more) difference in charm time when maximizing Charisma.

Even in your example, Charisma is directly correlated with taking less damage over time. When you say "A and B have taken exactly the same amount of damage," that's true. What you left out is that the timetable is different. Your phrase "at this point" is inaccurate. At no time have Enchanter A and Enchanter B taken the same amount of damage. Enchanter B has taken less damage over time due to his Charisma.

This is not even mentioning mana over time, which you will have a lot more of with more Charisma as well. Even when discussing it purely on a defensive level, the Enchanter with the higher Charisma takes less damage.

[Brain]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Think about how much damage a hasted, charmed pet does in one round. In some areas this is a damage potential of over 800 points.

In less than two seconds.

LOL enough said...

What mob in particular are you talking about here Slave? Which charm spell are you using in this situation?

[Slave]

Those shocking numbers are NOT EVEN CONSIDERING the following:

1) The longer you have something charmed, the more damage it will do and the less damage your party will take from mobs.

2) Initial Charm/Mez/Lull resist rates will be lower with higher Charisma

3) If the Enchanter is being attacked more over time, he's doing less CC, causing the group to endure more dps or regaining less mana.

[fadetree]

Someone is WRONG on the internetz!

[Slave]

A1551 has got to get a ton of credit here. Well done.

[Swish]

Originally Posted by Slave [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A1551 has got to get a ton of credit here. Well done.

Lets not forget the cleric too! But yeah those numbers are enlightening, and a very good advert for getting CHA to at least 200 as quickly as possible [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Tecmos Deception]

It's your fault I made an enchanter, Splorf. Damn solo artist stuff tempting me to get a character who can mess around with that stuff.

[Slave]

The numbers have more than borne out so not sure why you've gotta hate! [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]