Best 4 person all caster/priest group - Page 58

Troxx · #1 08-26-2022, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remember, the goal here is to see how much dps a shaman can do in a fast paced, fast killing full group. Mine included charm pet (most of the time), another mage with epic, and a tunare/ST monk other than myself.

That is the scope of this topic, this thread, and therefore the burden of proof is to show us how great your shaman is at doing it.

Troxx · #2 07-14-2024, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Gamparse is a good program. There are others out there but it does a good job. It has different viewing tabs to include one that gives you the spam of the raw logs. I recommend you turn on other’s damage hits so you can parse your group mates as well. Remember, the goal here is to see how much dps a shaman can do in a fast paced, fast killing full group. Mine included charm pet (most of the time), another mage with epic, and a tunare/ST monk other than myself.

That is the scope of this topic, this thread, and therefore the burden of proof is to show us how great your shaman is at doing it.

Regarding your disputable/undisputable jab, I can unfortunately predict where this is going. Once you fail to show that a shaman can keep up with respectable dps (or at least as good as you think you can) under these conditions I fully expect your next angle will to say that what I’ve provided (took all of 5 minutes to compile and another 5 to screenshot a jpg of) is “disputable”. I hope my prediction is wrong.

Sad thing is I have a shaman with all the same spells/levels and the same pet it’s yours. Your best bet is going to be slinging your highest hitting ice nuke repeatedly if mobs are dying fast. Bane and especially Pox are going to be underperforming mana hogs with high speed fights.

The question is will you be able to sling enough ice nukes frequently/fast enough (with canni mana regeneration advantage). Remember: mage nukes cast faster, hit harder, are more mana efficient. You’ll have more mana to play with but unlike your pet, the level 60 mage water pet isn’t a joke.

I’m interested in what you can put out over a long hall dps session sustainably fight after fight after fight and how it stacks up.

(Unfortunately I already know … because my 60 epic troll shaman has done this kind of exercise in the past).

Ps I recommend against spamming JBB as its dps won’t be nearly enough.

PPS: chain casting ice strike precisely every 7 seconds with no lag, fizzle, or partial resist has a 96 dps potential. Unfortunately you’ll have to be taking time to canni and torpor, so actual expected dps is going to be lower. Remember you got about 50dps worth of “bad pet” to make up the difference for before you actually start competing with mage DS and mage nukes.

I wish you luck and am very interested to see your findings. And remember!! While you are furiously mashing buttons non stop trying to put out these numbers, my mage did it causally chatting and peacefully meditating and checking the stock market … standing up to sling a few nukes. Super chill, very relaxing xp and loot grind session.

Page 64. In the most comprehensive manner yet DSM is encouraged to actually try to do the thing he said he could do. I have a 60 shaman with all the same spells. I even gave him advice.

Sadly, he never even attempted it.

I’m curious when we will shift to the new approach of instead kicking the cleric out of the group … but I think it’s probably somewhere after page 400. Who knows …. well I guess I will when we get there!

Thanks for entertaining me on a lazy Sunday. Feet up watching them put in a new fence while sipping Diet Coke. Otherwise I’d be supervising some teenagers with nothing else to do.

DeathsSilkyMist · #3 07-14-2024, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Page 64. In the most comprehensive manner yet DSM is encouraged to actually try to do the thing he said he could do. I have a 60 shaman with all the same spells. I even gave him advice.

Sadly, he never even attempted it.

I’m curious when we will shift to the new approach of instead kicking the cleric out of the group … but I think it’s probably somewhere after page 400. Who knows …. well I guess I will when we get there!

Thanks for entertaining me on a lazy Sunday. Feet up watching them put in a new fence while sipping Diet Coke. Otherwise I’d be supervising some teenagers with nothing else to do.

Troxx has never provided video evidence or logs of him playing in a group with his Mage. We don't actually know if the parses he provided were in a group, due to the lack of context.

He doesn't live up to his own standard of providing evidence of him grouping. He simply dismisses evidence out of hand and demands more.

I provided the howling stones video, which shows a Shaman can output consistent direct damage DPS in a group while doing other Shaman duties in a two hour session. This consistent direct damage can be seen in the solo video too. This disproves his claim that solo videos cannot translate to group content.

So far I am the only one to show conclusive evidence of me in a group, and I have provided more evidence than Troxx.

He just keeps dodging, dismissing, trolling, and bloating the thread.

Toxigen · #4 08-25-2022, 04:58 PM

@DSM

Ripqozko · #5 08-25-2022, 05:23 PM

Join VQ and be around DSM all the time, apply today

DeathsSilkyMist · #6 08-25-2022, 06:44 PM

Ok got two videos and logs. As usual, the math is right lol. I am not sure why people think there is some mysticism here.

This test assumes no clickies and no mana regen buffs. The Shaman and the Mage are level 60. The test mob was https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Sebilite_Golem , which matches the level of the trash mobs in Crypt.

Based on Troxx's data, the average kill speed for his group was 36 seconds. So I am using that.

Shaman DPS = 17.7 from pet + 37.5 DPS at 2 Ice Strikes per 36 seconds for a total of 55.2 DPS. Mana lost: Rougly 1724 mana. The mana loss isn't 100% accurate since I needed to face tank the mob.

Mage DPS from Troxx logs: 56 DPS from pet + 23 DPS from shock of steel once per 36 seconds + 3.7 DPS from damage shield when getting hit 26 times over the entire video (logs show hits) for a total of 82.7 DPS. Mana lost is 2260, assuming the Mage is meditating at 8 ticks per minute (needs to stand up to nuke for 1-2 ticks).

No resists occurred on my Ice Strike spell. No partial resists occurred either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-g8Ywibztg - Pet DPS video, logs are attached in description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E - Shaman DPS video, logs are attached in description.

Shaman DPS is 55.2

Mage DPS is 82.7.

Difference is 27.5.

You decide whether roughly 30 DPS is worth a Mage[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As my other log data showed:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

For Shaman DPS:

My Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:34 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:18 2022] Your Bane of Nife spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:41 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Your Envenomed Bolt spell has worn off.

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] You begin casting Bane of Nife.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 150 points of damage.
30 seconds (6 Ticks)

[Mon Aug 22 08:13:25 2022] You begin casting Envenomed Bolt.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 110 points of damage.
24 seconds (4 Ticks)

Enemy Spells
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:32 2022] Froglok jin shaman feels much better. +270HP

Pet DPS
=========
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:23 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:24 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:25 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:26 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:28 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:31 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 16 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:33 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:42 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 18 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:43 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:44 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 39 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:49 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:53 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:54 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:56 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:12:58 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 20 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:01 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:03 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:05 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:06 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 30 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 41 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:12 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:15 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:17 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:19 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 17 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:21 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:22 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:24 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:26 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:29 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:30 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:31 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 43 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:33 2022] froglok jin shaman was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:35 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 19 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 13 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:36 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 12 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:38 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:40 2022] Xibarer bashes froglok jin shaman for 15 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:41 2022] You bash froglok jin shaman for 1 point of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:42 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 21 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:44 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 24 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:45 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:47 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 34 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 47 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:51 2022] Xibarer kicks froglok jin shaman for 22 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 28 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:52 2022] Xibarer bites froglok jin shaman for 26 points of damage.
[Mon Aug 22 08:13:54 2022] You have slain froglok jin shaman!

6,549 damage over 93 seconds = 70.5 DPS

A Shaman's DPS increases as well if the fight lasts longer, which means they can use their DoTs. That was 70 DPS, no clickies. So the difference could shrink to about 10 DPS.

As you can see, the numbers are the same as the math I showed earlier. It is not "napkin math" lol, it is just math[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

PlsNoBan · #7 08-25-2022, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok got two videos and logs. As usual, the math is right lol. I am not sure why people think there is some mysticism here.

This test assumes no clickies and no mana regen buffs. The Shaman and the Mage are level 60. The test mob was https://wiki.project1999.com/A_Sebilite_Golem , which matches the level of the trash mobs in Crypt.

Based on Troxx's data, the average kill speed for his group was 36 seconds. So I am using that.

Shaman DPS = 17.7 from pet + 37.5 DPS at 2 Ice Strikes per 36 seconds for a total of 55.2 DPS. Mana lost: Rougly 1724 mana. The mana loss isn't 100% accurate since I needed to face tank the mob.

Mage DPS from Troxx logs: 56 DPS from pet + 23 DPS from shock of steel once per 36 seconds + 3.7 DPS from damage shield when getting hit 26 times over the entire video (logs show hits) for a total of 82.7 DPS. Mana lost is 2260, assuming the Mage is meditating at 8 ticks per minute (needs to stand up to nuke for 1-2 ticks).

No resists occurred on my Ice Strike spell. No partial resists occurred either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-g8Ywibztg - Pet DPS video, logs are attached in description.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XwiGKTuu2E - Shaman DPS video, logs are attached in description.

Shaman DPS is 55.2

Mage DPS is 82.7.

Difference is 27.5.

You decide whether roughly 30 DPS is worth a Mage[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As my other log data showed:

A Shaman's DPS increases as well if the fight lasts longer, which means they can use their DoTs. That was 70 DPS, no clickies. So the difference could shrink to about 10 DPS.

As you can see, the numbers are the same as the math I showed earlier. It is not "napkin math" lol, it is just math[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the top end dps is 80 a difference of 30 is fairly substantial. I'm surprised with all your math skills you don't realize that.

DeathsSilkyMist · #8 08-25-2022, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the top end dps is 80 a difference of 30 is fairly substantial. I'm surprised with all your math skills you don't realize that.

So you have finally conceded the math is correct!

No, 30 DPS isn't that big of a deal when looking at all of the other things a Shaman offers.

If you are killing a mob with 8000 HP in 36 seconds, that means your DPS is 222 already. A difference of 30 would change the kill speed from 36 to 42 seconds. That is a difference of 6 seconds. Now I know people will think that's good, but you aren't considering the other things a Shaman can do to save the party time. So really it's a smaller difference, but harder to quantify.

Danth · #9 08-25-2022, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Do you even math ? Clearly you don’t understand math . It’s all written out if you look at the math.

It's that blasted New Math again, isn't it?

------------------------------

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When the top end dps is 80 a difference of 30 is fairly substantial. I'm surprised with all your math skills you don't realize that.

A 30 DPS difference is large comparing them individually but not especially sigificant as part of the larger hypothetical group. We already have a couple of hasted/buffed/etc charm pets shredding stuff in our group. A 6-man won't want the shaman as a damage-dealer, but a 6-man pickup group breaks and forms on-site and is ever-changing so they're covering their utility on an as-needed, custom basis. This thread intended to discuss a single, set group intended to do all content throughout the entire game. Frankly I don't care if I can mow something down in 33 seconds with a magician or 30 seconds with a shaman then wait 4 min instead of 5 at the end of the round while stuff respawns. I care what the raw capability of the group is, so I care more about camps where one character is *strongly* preferred over the other. Math won't get us there.

We all liked the magician over the shaman for Juggernauts, even Shamwowi. Probably all of us (I assume?) would like the shaman over the magician for West Wastes dragons. Who wins at more individual locations? I'll be frank here, I'm not experienced enough with magicians--I only occasionally group with them--to know ALL the areas that they're really good for. Chime in, please.

Danth

Vexenu · #10 08-25-2022, 07:18 PM

I don't see you casting slow, Malo, Epic, JBB, Pox, root, spot heals, canni and Torpor in that log, all of which you have claimed at various times in this thread you will be regularly casting, and all of which together would substantially change your ridiculous little math calculation and reveal it to be the work of an utter imbecile.

Or are you now claiming you will just stand there spamming Bane and E-bolt for hours on end in a sad (and still futile!) attempt to out-DPS a Mage?