FTE is Fing stupid

[suptoofs]

Originally Posted by toyodafenninro [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No offense, but this question seems a bit odd considering the nature of the OP's post, but I'll bite. We are competing against other guilds. At the moment the main competitor is BDA. I suspect, although I cannot prove it, that other competition will manifest itself with the approach of velious and the attainment of level 60 by many of the new players mentioned in earlier replies.

We also compete against ourselves. We discuss how well, or poorly, we did on any particular encounter or mobilization. If we wipe, we talk about it.

Competition doesn't necessarily mean a near-tie 100% of the time.

There aren't any guilds really competing against you, BDA barely manages to and you call them your main competitor. rofl. When velious pops the playing field will be more level only because there will be a decent increase in raid targets.

[kbnexus]

Originally Posted by Llabak [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

.



Rotation:
TMO
BDA

4) For both guilds this will increase kills on a prime mob. BDA will likely get more Traks, TMO will get more VSs. As I understand it, TMO has a month and a half VS drought. In that 6 week window they would have had 2 guaranteeds and possibly 2 more.

5) For TMO, this really isn't going to impact them terribly in terms of pixels. Considering the number of endgame mobs that spawn outside normal BDA windows, there will be a goodly number of 20-minute windows that BDA just won't be able to get, and if that's our turn, that's our turn and move on to the next on the list.

Here is my proposed rotation

VS:
TMO

Trakanon:
TMO

Other shit
TMO
TMO
BDA
Open

4)You are misinformed we got this vs and one two spawns ago.
5)We don't raid for pixels. We are a raiding guild who raids too.....RAID derp. If we stop raiding TMO has no purpose here. We are trying to maintain interest by gearing alts and continuing to gear mains and new players while we wait... FOREVER for Velious.
So no we aren't going to stop doing what we are doing for... you?

[falkun]

The GMs do not want to enforce a rotation, but Nilbog has bluntly stated leapfrogging is stupid. Sirken also agrees FTE is a flawed metric, but its all the GM staff have to go by.

I'm sure the GM staff would be just as happy to not have to respond to petitions at 3AM as well.

[Itap]

So what I've gathered from this thread is, from TMO members' point of view, if you have a full time job, kids, wife, family, ect., you will not really have a chance to experience the end game. Shouldn't everyone have a chance to experience it, no matter how casual/hardcore?

I can dedicate a fair share of time to EQ on certain days, but theres no way in hell i can log on in the middle of the day to kill a raid mob.

Don't take this question the wrong way, this isn't a sob story, just a legitimate question

[Galelor]

Originally Posted by Itap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what I've gathered from this thread is, from TMO members' point of view, if you have a full time job, kids, wife, family, ect., you will not really have a chance to experience the end game. Shouldn't everyone have a chance to experience it, no matter how casual/hardcore?

I can dedicate a fair share of time to EQ on certain days, but theres no way in hell i can log on in the middle of the day to kill a raid mob.

Don't take this question the wrong way, this isn't a sob story, just a legitimate question

Honestly, I stopped playing because of time constraints and because poopsocking is no longer my idea of fun. That said, Pre-PoP EQ was never a communal environment where everyone got a little bit. The strong took what they want, and this is how the game is set up to play out. Once instancing started, and guilds realized they didn't have to cockblock PoI, PoE, and PoW guilds got along a lot better.

I would like to add that nothing is going to change when Velious comes out. There are more mobs, but attitudes will not change. What happens when TMO splits factions... The fun will be over for all other guilds that want raid mobs. Good luck even getting VP mobs. Since open training is OK, I doubt anyone other than TMO is going to want to even try raiding there.

I hate to say it, but if you want a casual environment where everyone is sharing mobs, you need to find a server with instance raiding. P99 raid scene is shot for casual players.

[canker]

Originally Posted by Itap [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So what I've gathered from this thread is, from TMO members' point of view, if you have a full time job, kids, wife, family, ect., you will not really have a chance to experience the end game. Shouldn't everyone have a chance to experience it, no matter how casual/hardcore?

I can dedicate a fair share of time to EQ on certain days, but theres no way in hell i can log on in the middle of the day to kill a raid mob.

Don't take this question the wrong way, this isn't a sob story, just a legitimate question

I hate this argument. most TMO members have full time jobs or significant others/families to care about, just like everyone else. we do have some members that have slightly less responsibilities than the rest, but it's a large minority compared to the guild as a whole.

where we are different from most casual players/non-raiders is that we're able to balance our time in real life and in everquest to create a healthy compromise between the two. it's not a particularly easy thing to do, and some people just can't figure it out even with time. but to say that just because you or others have real life responsibilities that prevent people from experiencing end game content is just a weak and flimsy excuse. everyone does. it's about achieving balance between the things in your life.

as others have said, we also have players from all over the world. our majority are north american or european time based players, but we have players with different schedules and playtimes to ensure our guilds presence at all times of the day.

[Ravager]

Originally Posted by canker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hate this argument. most TMO members have full time jobs or significant others/families to care about, just like everyone else. we do have some members that have slightly less responsibilities than the rest, but it's a large minority compared to the guild as a whole.

where we are different from most casual players/non-raiders is that we're able to balance our time in real life and in everquest to create a healthy compromise between the two. it's not a particularly easy thing to do, and some people just can't figure it out even with time. but to say that just because you or others have real life responsibilities that prevent people from experiencing end game content is just a weak and flimsy excuse. everyone does. it's about achieving balance between the things in your life.

as others have said, we also have players from all over the world. our majority are north american or european time based players, but we have players with different schedules and playtimes to ensure our guilds presence at all times of the day.

Kind of sounds like TMO is more casual than casual guilds. This is the problem of the raid scene right here. TMO has players in all time zones able to log on at a moment's notice with the numbers to kill a mob. With those numbers over those time zones, you can also pass around the tracking responsibilities in a way that folks aren't tracking for hours at a time through the night. With those numbers, you've been able to acquire the wealth you need to buy toons (something else I think this server should not allow) to park at raid mobs negating any need to mobilize.

Now, the server is in a situation where if you want pixels you 1.) Join TMO where you don't have to fight TMO to get them, or 2.) Join another guild and work 10x harder than anyone in TMO does to try and beat the zerg that can log on with the numbers at any time of day. At any rate, this isn't good for the server on both sides. On TMO's end, once you have your pixels and Velious isn't out yet, what do you do? You get bored and leave, unless you like farming plat and gearing 10 alts. On every other guild's end, you get burned out and frustrated trying to fight the Borg for pixels. Any kind of rotation, even a 1 to 7 rotation where folks could show up without worrying about wasting umpteen hours of their time would keep folks from quitting the server entirely.

And sans rotation, some limits on guild size would level the playing field considerably.

[toyodafenninro]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And sans rotation, some limits on guild size would level the playing field considerably.

Not only would a move like this be unprecedented, it would be unenforceable. Groups of people who want to play together will do so, regardless of how guilds are required to be divided. There would be no way for GM's to realistically enforce something like this when players would simply split larger guilds into two smaller forces on paper, and work together to kill mobs. Senario: "TMO Adam Squad assisted TMO Boy Squad on Trakanon this morning." Both squads had 30 people.

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by canker [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I hate this argument. most TMO members have full time jobs or significant others/families to care about, just like everyone else. we do have some members that have slightly less responsibilities than the rest, but it's a large minority compared to the guild as a whole.

where we are different from most casual players/non-raiders is that we're able to balance our time in real life and in everquest to create a healthy compromise between the two. it's not a particularly easy thing to do, and some people just can't figure it out even with time. but to say that just because you or others have real life responsibilities that prevent people from experiencing end game content is just a weak and flimsy excuse. everyone does. it's about achieving balance between the things in your life.

as others have said, we also have players from all over the world. our majority are north american or european time based players, but we have players with different schedules and playtimes to ensure our guilds presence at all times of the day.

I don't know everyone in TMO, and I have no reason to suggest that most of them don't have lives outside of the game. But like another poster said, it's the fact that TMO (and BDA) are so large that allows them to not spend that much time on the game. It's the fact that raiding on this server (unlike on Live) demands so much time that necessitates TMO and BDA having such large raid forces. Most of the smaller guilds are lucky to get 20-25 people a night, how can they regularly compete against a raid force that's three times their size? If you have three times as many people, you will probably mobilize three times as fast. By the time we have a group up in hate for Inny, you guys have an entire raid force.

Now that isn't TMO or BDA's fault. I'm not suggesting you guys split up or cut down on your numbers, or bring less people to raids. But I'm just giving you some perspective as to why casual guilds can't compete at the same level - if we did, we would have to spend all our time tracking and neglect our RL responsibilities, because we don't have enough people to pass tracking responsibilities around to. This has probably been the #1 reason why the raid scene has always been dominated by 1 or 2 guilds on p99, while on Live content was spread more evenly.

Add to that the fact that casual guilds tend to have stricter recruiting requirements. Add to that the fact that mobs often spawn at ridiculous times like 3 or 4 AM eastern, when almost no one is awake. I've tracked mobs for days only to have it spawn early in the morning - a small guild can't have an enormous european contingent that logs in immediately once a mob spawns. So people get discouraged, they stop tracking, they miss a few TOD's, and you get what we have now: a raid scene where for the most part, only 2 guilds bother to compete over raid mobs.

The solution isn't for everyone to rotate mobs, or for everyone to play nicer, or for TMO to give us handouts, it's for the system to be changed so that I don't have to spend up to 96 hours straight pressing "track" just for a chance at pixels. I know very few people who would waste that much time for a guarantee at pixels, how many do you think will do it for a ~33% chance at it?

2 and a half months ago Nilbog said he had a proposal to fix all this. What happened to that?: http://www.project1999.org/forums/sh...6&postcount=72

[quido]

I want to go trick-or-treating at the age of 18 without so much as donning a costume.