Why do…

[7thGate]

Anyone else want to take any guesses?

[Toxigen]

we must know

[7thGate]

Here are all the classes, along with some information that I have about AC values from some of the people. The number in brackets is the sample size in attacks taken.

Hit %: 63.2%
Avg Hit: 213
Damage/Attack: 134.5
Naib, Shaman, 1097 AC [711]

Hit %: 62.9%
Avg Hit: 210
Damage/Attack: 132.1
Jallai, Shaman [353]

Hit %: 69.5%
Avg Hit: 244
Damage/Attack: 169.8
Ghanjo, Shaman [187]

Hit %: 47.2%
Avg Hit: 198
Damage/Attack: 93.5
Jayya, Rogue, 1256 AC [1779]

Hit %: 50.1%
Avg Hit: 184
Damage/Attack: 92.2
Snails, Paladin (~1400 AC) [55]

Hit %: 53.3%
Avg Hit: 200
Damage/Attack: 106.5
Snails, Paladin (Old)

Hit %: 54%
Avg Hit: 211
Damage/Attack: 113.9
Riddian, Shaman [50]



Hit %: 48.2%
Avg Hit: 217
Damage/Attack: 104.6
Jayya, Rogue (Old, ~1100-1150ish AC) [892]

Hit %: 42%
Avg Hit: 193
Damage/Attack: 81
Teslacoil, Monk, Raid Geared (1300ish AC?) [717]

Hit %: 51.2
Avg Hit: 205
Damage/Attack: 105
Snails, Paladin (old, includes old parse from the first block) [324]

Hit %: 58.1
Avg Hit: 215
Damage/Attack: 124.9
Curacao, Shaman [160]

Hit %: 64.2
Avg Hit: 229
Damage/Attack: 147
Euroshammy, Shaman [95]

Hit %: 33.3
Avg Hit: 296
Damage/Attack: 98.6
Zyzzx, Monk, Sub-60 ALS Leveling Geared [72]

Some thoughts on the results:

Monk skill mitigation is bonkers on non-raid mobs, which I kind of knew already. Zyzzx clearly also got lucky, and with a small sample size ended up parsing with really high avoidance; block rate is higher than average, and hit rate from unblocked attacks was also lower than average, which combined to a really high avoidance rate.

The impact of AC is very noticeable though; low AC monk getting hit for 60% more per hit than a raid geared Paladin, though they are both low sample size sets. You can see in some cases where there are blocks of parses for Snails and myself with years of upgrades in between where the damage taken drops from the AC item upgrades accumulated over time. Teslacoil is a strong raid geared monk, and with that sample size probably has a relatively stable estimate for damage taken; the extra mitigation from all the Velious all/all low weight AC gear is very noticeable here. Combined with monk skills, he had the lowest overall damage taken per attack.

A lot of the Shammys seem to parse in the same mitigation range from AC as Jayya’s old AC band. I suspect this is due to the lower defense skill caps, but with higher quality gear making up the difference; Shammys get a number of items like PoM boots, shields and Vindi BPs that are usually higher AC than a Rogue can get in slot. There are a few outliers that might indicate Shammys with worse gearing, or it could be luck based to some extent from smaller sample size. They’re all suffering a lot from the lack of skill based evasion in the average damage taken, however.

One of the things I think is kind of interesting from this is that it seems like displayed AC across classes might actually be more directly comparable than I thought it would be. Jayya’s old AC mitigated pretty close to Naib at a pretty similar level, around ~1100.

Tying back to the topic for the thread, I would guess based on this that many twinked monks actually take less damage per hit on XP mobs than anyone except a warrior running evasive. If they’re geared, it is probably not actually wasting healer mana, and is actually probably helping if there’s any sort of passive regeneration or group healing going on. Similarly, Rogues (and maybe Rangers?) are probably not that far off on mitigation vs. the tank in most cases if they’re geared for AC. If they’re not AC geared, then they’ll take noticeably more. But it is likely to be Rogue dependent based on what they’re wearing whether it is an actual negative or not for the group. Jayya is parsing worse than Snails at similar gear levels, but only by a small amount because the better rogue defensive skills are compensating for the worse AC. Jayya in current gear is outparsing Snails in older, worse gear.

I suspect that the reason why most people feel there is a large difference in Rogue vs. Tank damage taken is that a Rogue may be gearing for Str while leveling in many cases. Tanks will usually be gearing for AC. If you’re not both gearing for AC, you’ll end up taking much more damage on the Rogue instead of a little bit more. As a percentage of life, there is also a significant difference because Rogues have very low HP; Jayya is 1650 HP behind Snails at our current gearing levels. This matters a lot if you’re healing via CHeals or trying to tank something big where you have to survive large damage spikes, but otherwise doesn’t matter much for healer mana efficiency.

[aussenseiter]

Kaioken times two. I'm not good enough at math to figure out what happened here.

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Hit %: 42%
Avg Hit: 193
Damage/Attack: 81
Teslacoil, Monk, Raid Geared (1300ish AC?) [717]



Hit %: 33.3
Avg Hit: 296
Damage/Attack: 98.6
Zyzzx, Monk, Sub-60 ALS Leveling Geared [72]

Neato, thanks for posting these. Is Zyzzx over the weight limit?

[7thGate]

Originally Posted by aussenseiter [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Neato, thanks for posting these. Is Zyzzx over the weight limit?

I'm not sure; I think this was from a 2020 raid I led in pom, and I don't remember much except that I think he was sub-60.

[cd288]

Originally Posted by |tda| fatal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Why do rogs /monks / rangers/ intentionally try and get aggro in group content as if they are helping the group so how. Can anyone explain this though process behind this.
If you have a tank in the group and the mob is rooted why are the intentionally getting as close to the mob as possible? Or they are not using evade or FDing at all and rng opening up with flame lick. Am I missing something? How is this helpful in any way? Isn’t it making more work for the healer and wasting more mana which = more downtime for everyone? So just wasting everyone’s time to feel “leet”? I’m confused someone enlighten me pls.

If it's a situation where Root has been applied, then it's probably just people who don't know that the mob attacks the closest player to it.

[Toxigen]

AC is godlike until you get to raid mobs

all knows

[7thGate]

I feel like it works on some raid mobs, especially lower tier ones, and less so on others. Not a lot of hard parsing for that conclusion though. I do remember looking through a parse on Talendor where a defensive war was taking damage at a rate where they had like 47 seconds before they would have needed a heal. A lot of that's defensive being great, but AC was mitigating a lot too.

Avatar of War on the other hand has the silliest hit distribution I've ever seen. Based on the hit distribution and what I've been able to puzzle out of the combat math it seems like it basically has infinite attack, or at the very least something like 20000 ATK or some such silly number. I believe an infinite attack mob will max hit 50% of the time, and then have an even distribution of the remaining 50% of hits across the other 19 damage intervals...and that's essentially exactly what I've seen on every AoW parse I've ever looked at.

[Jimjam]

Originally Posted by 7thGate [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I feel like it works on some raid mobs, especially lower tier ones, and less so on others. Not a lot of hard parsing for that conclusion though. I do remember looking through a parse on Talendor where a defensive war was taking damage at a rate where they had like 47 seconds before they would have needed a heal. A lot of that's defensive being great, but AC was mitigating a lot too.

Avatar of War on the other hand has the silliest hit distribution I've ever seen. Based on the hit distribution and what I've been able to puzzle out of the combat math it seems like it basically has infinite attack, or at the very least something like 20000 ATK or some such silly number. I believe an infinite attack mob will max hit 50% of the time, and then have an even distribution of the remaining 50% of hits across the other 19 damage intervals...and that's essentially exactly what I've seen on every AoW parse I've ever looked at.

I believe even at the time (2001) AoW was famed for being unmitigatable. He was also an interest as it was pretty much the only NPC that had levels of AC equivalent to PCs (something that p99 doesn't really replicate - on this server loads of mobs have decent AC).

[cd288]

Originally Posted by Jimjam [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it was pretty much the only NPC that had levels of AC equivalent to PCs (something that p99 doesn't really replicate - on this server loads of mobs have decent AC).

Omg is that Nilbog's music!?