Game Mechanics: spell gem refresh with instant clicky does not refresh all spell gems correctly

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just need to get back on point - removing recast times for spells that didn't have it before the 2003 patch. that would fix nirgons initial complaint.

also gem slot 1 is bugged because a clicky will pop any gem even if its 5 minute recast..

would love some dev comments about what is possible / what is occuring

[Technique]

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not classic. see my link regarding 2003 patch giving all spells a minimum 2.2 sec recast time when prior to that a lot of spells had zero recast time

Every spell has an individual recovery time that determines the duration of the GCD after casting it. Only certain spells have recast times (e.g., Divine Aura: 15m). These values are present in even the earliest spdats. There's no hard recast time on all spells here on p99.

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

first you say supernova should be greyed out 12 seconds regardless of clickies, then you go on to say that gem slot 1 is working as intended by popping it up???

I said any spell that doesn't have a recast time should be refreshed. That obviously excludes Supernova, which has a 12s recast.

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

regardless, not classic. therefore gem slot 1 is bugged, and the rest are working fine.

Slot 1 isn't working correctly, that's not being disputed. But the rest simply aren't working at all like they should be (there's even video proof of it) and that's what prompted this thread.

From the eqclerics thread you linked about the newly added recast times:

I admit this could be seen as a bug fix - so we no longer can CH - jboot - CH and skip the recast entirely - but it saddens me nonetheless.

Clicking to skip recast was the only thing that made some fights fun - CH - click - nuke - click - and CH again just time comes to mind

You will still be able to CH-click-Nuke-click-CH
You just wont be able to CH-click-CH

Aside from the first guy sharing your confusion and mistaking recast for recovery, this is more evidence that clickies refreshed all gems (that weren't currently on recast cooldown).

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

just need to get back on point - removing recast times for spells that didn't have it before the 2003 patch. that would fix nirgons initial complaint.

These spells already don't have recast times; removing what doesn't exist won't fix anything.

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

also gem slot 1 is bugged because a clicky will pop any gem even if its 5 minute recast..

Yes, this is true, yes it shouldn't work like that, but the benefit is negligible because the spell fails to take effect if the cast finishes before its recast time is met.

It sounds like you believe there are perpetually invulnerable clerics/necros and chain harvesting wizards running around the server.

[evilkorn]

Originally Posted by Grimjaw [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

again, under classic mechanics cleric heals had instant recast time. the only thing holding it back should be the global cooldown (recovery?).

According to the spdat, healing spells have 2.5 second recast (3 on word of health). But because those have a cast time longer than the global cool down you should be able to spam those with a insta clickie. The cleric forum linked mentioned yelp saying because it had a short cast time they got the error spell recovery not met.

[Grimjaw]

From the eqclerics thread you linked about the newly added recast times:
Quote:
I admit this could be seen as a bug fix - so we no longer can CH - jboot - CH and skip the recast entirely - but it saddens me nonetheless.

Clicking to skip recast was the only thing that made some fights fun - CH - click - nuke - click - and CH again just time comes to mind
Quote:
You will still be able to CH-click-Nuke-click-CH
You just wont be able to CH-click-CH
Aside from the first guy sharing your confusion and mistaking recast for recovery, this is more evidence that clickies refreshed all gems (that weren't currently on recast cooldown).

We're basically arguing for the same point. I agree in classic you could CH-click-CH and here you cannot. But the point i am trying to make is that all spells are hard-coded on p1999 with a minimum recast of 2.2. (which needs to be fixed to resolve the OP's problem). That is why CH is still greyed out after using your clicky on p1999 but it wasnt on live (apply this scenario to many spells). In classic live, CH had a recast of zero. That is what allowed you to chain cast it, and that is what needs to be fixed here.

so far in this thread, the only other suggestion to fix this problem is "gem 1 works fine so apply it to all". Even though many people here are in agreement that gem1 is NOT fine. What i offer is the plausible answer to the cause & effect of what is happening and how we can resolve it. (without breaking every gem slot like gem1 is). I have not heard any other options to resolve this problem besides OPs bizarre one, and my sound logic.

I am not confusing recast with recovery. Clickies currently reset the recovery time. The problem with chain-casting the same spell is, again, a Recast of 2.2 hard-coded into every spell!

These spells already don't have recast times; removing what doesn't exist won't fix anything.

I disagree. Even if its not hard-coded in spdat it is hard-coded somewhere. Can a GM please look into this and confirm? its blatantly obvious that's whats occurring, by the way it currently works on p1999

It sounds like you believe there are perpetually invulnerable clerics/necros and chain harvesting wizards running around the server.

no... thats not at all what i think. I am using those spells as example because the bug is clearly evident when using examples with 5 minute recast. the gem simply should stay grayed out. The gem1 bug is actually exacerbated with 5 second spells, with 5 sec recast. Because when it refreshes from a clicky (it shouldnt) and you start casting again, by the time it finishes casting the server allows it, because its past the time. It simply shouldnt pop out yet. (and i know you agree with me, given your supernova example). None of this timing mechanics with the server should come into play because it should be greyed out for 5 seconds regardless of clickies.


Pillar of Frost (51 wiz quading spell)
Cast Time = 4.5 sec
Recast Time = 6 sec

Basically the gem1 bug allows you fire off a Pillar of Frost every 6 seconds (currently you can circumvent the recast mechanic in gem1 using a clicky, thereby starting the next cast 6 seconds early!!!!)
when in classic it would be greyed out for 6 sec. Plus the cast time you'd be getting 1 Pillar of Frost every 11 seconds.

Yes, this is true, yes it shouldn't work like that, but the benefit is negligible because the spell fails to take effect if the cast finishes before its recast time is met.
It sounds like you believe there are perpetually invulnerable clerics/necros and chain harvesting wizards running around the server.

given my Pillar of Frost example above, the only thing negligible is allowing this bug to continue unchecked. and DEFINITELY NOT applying gem1 bug to all gem slots, like Nirgon's OP suggest.


its all cause and effect. I like to get down to the root of the problem, implement the missing mechanics etc, to create the desired effect that we all agree is classic. You and Nirgon are trying to fix this chain-casting problem with a bandaid solution that just breaks more things than it fixes.

[Grimjaw]

bug # 1 - we cannot chain-cast certain spells like CH because they seem to be locked out due to a recast timer. When in classic they had no recast timer.

bug # 2 - using a clicky, gem slot 1 refreshes any spell regardless of the recast timer. the other gem slots are fine and only reset the global cooldown while properly following the rules of the recast timer.

op and a few others are suggesting to fix bug # 1 by applying bug # 2 to every single gem.

and im saying to disregard bug # 2 for now. Lets just focus on bug # 1. and the fix for that is for devs to look into and remove the hard-coded 2.2 sec recast time that evidently exists regardless what the spdat says.

[Erati]

nice post

seems we need the Devs to comment about what is happening code/server wise

[Nirgon]

Heard we got some extra time on the clock b4 Velious, I'm sure this is a coding pain in the ass and involves client side stuff.

Awaiting Nilberg/designated emissary's grand entrance to thread.

Big things here.

[Erati]

up for dev commentary

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

up for dev commentary

[Erati]

Originally Posted by Erati [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

up for dev commentary

.