Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody is picking one class or another over the ability to do WW dragons.

You should have used something like Puppet Show for your argument. At least thrones are worth farming.

Just dsm reaching again. Ww dragons are easy. 3 enc animations could kill them. They just don’t because they are off doing better things.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Just dsm reaching again. Ww dragons are easy. 3 enc animations could kill them. They just don’t because they are off doing better things.

It's not reaching. I would love to see a video of this if you have it. The 55 Enchanter animation is barely better than the 55 Shaman pet, and it cannot tank a slowed WW Dragon. You would be doing a lot of pet resummoning.

[cyxthryth]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you can do more camps with one composition over another, why limit yourself?

Why "limit" the conversation to being about level 60 with full spellbooks?

It could be argued that by insisting the conversation be focused solely (or even mostly) around the capabilities of classes at level 60 with full spellbooks - because that particular/specific specification can allow you to say "Shaman adds WW dragons to the list of camps this group can possibly do" - that you are simply specifying a precondition designed to restrict the conversation to try and make a certain class (Shaman) favorable for specific scenarios (which the OP did not specify any, remember?) and that you are simply fervently trying to win the argument by creating a scenario where your favorite class is the best, and then using that to claim other classes can never be superior.

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

He did not poke any holes, nor has he ever done so in his copy/paste nonsense.

The default assumption for any group is they want to level to 60. That is the purpose of leveling. That is not a contrived precondition.

What definition of "nonsense" are you using again?

There are more reasons to play the game than "wanting to level to 60" even if eventually becoming level 60 is a product/result of playing the game. Regardless, even if "wanting to get to level 60" and "will eventually reach level 60" are accepted preconditions, the discussion is simply about the "best" 4 person all caster/priest group - and such a group will simply begin at level 1, without full spellbooks. Therefore:

Originally Posted by cyxthryth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

it could be argued that by insisting the conversation be focused solely (or even mostly) around the capabilities of classes at level 60 with full spellbooks that you are simply specifying a precondition designed to restrict the conversation to try and make a certain class (Shaman) favorable for specific scenarios (which the OP did not specify any, remember?) and that you are simply fervently trying to win the argument by creating a scenario where your favorite class is the best, and then using that to claim other classes can never be superior.

[Gloomlord]

But the group was for 4, genius.

[fortior]

Legit pick up the druid for ports and long snares on charm pets.

[fortior]

A raid geared necro with willsapper is also crazy. Or staff of the silent star, that thing procs like a beast. With FD/instant clicky invis you can get to camps super fast, even in normally very hostile zones like DN rat tunnels.

The more I think about this, the more the thought that shamans add any meaningful utility compared to literally any other caster or priest is hilarious to me haha. Maaaybe mages are more onedimensional, but you can do some pretty cool pulling tricks with CotH to single pull juggs in seb etc. Nobody even mentioned track, which is something druids get a good version of and which along with ports is a huge huge W for your xping/cash camping group. You get to the camp before anyone else, you see which mobs are up before anyone else... you'll walk all over the groups who have to carry along a slow as fuck shaman.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A raid geared necro with willsapper is also crazy. Or staff of the silent star, that thing procs like a beast. With FD/instant clicky invis you can get to camps super fast, even in normally very hostile zones like DN rat tunnels.

The more I think about this, the more the thought that shamans add any meaningful utility compared to literally any other caster or priest is hilarious to me haha. Maaaybe mages are more onedimensional, but you can do some pretty cool pulling tricks with CotH to single pull juggs in seb etc. Nobody even mentioned track, which is something druids get a good version of and which along with ports is a huge huge W for your xping/cash camping group. You get to the camp before anyone else, you see which mobs are up before anyone else... you'll walk all over the groups who have to carry along a slow as fuck shaman.

They don’t. Dsm is just defending this to the death.

[Gloomlord]

I mean, if the moment came where I needed a tanky class in order to do some mob in a zone, screw the caster only composition, because I'm grabbing myself a Warrior or knight.

Why would I need a completely redundant Shaman?

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Gloomlord [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I mean, if the moment came where I needed a tanky class in order to do some mob in a zone, screw the caster only composition, because I'm grabbing myself a Warrior or knight.

Why would I need a completely redundant Shaman?

If you lost the restriction on cloth casters Shaman/Enchanter/Monk is an extremely efficient trio, and you could add whichever fourth class you wanted to it.

Originally Posted by fortior [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well there's a period on the server where shamans are fantastic, but that window pretty much closes permanently once velious releases. Massive stats on items, unslowable mobs, and charm doesn't get reeled in until later.

DSM sounds like someone who has been stuck with the very limited toolbox of a shaman for a long time, and he probably just doesn't even know about the crazy things other classes can do (together). Like there's no way this dude knows about coth pulling.

I understand CoTH pulling. The question is simply how many camps actually need it? Very few as far as I am aware. Chardok Royals is what comes to mind.

[fortior]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I understand CoTH pulling. The question is simply how many camps actually need it? Very few as far as I am aware. Chardok Royals is what comes to mind.

It's not about needing things, it's about you not realizing how good having certain options is because you don't play with those options. The first clue this was happening was when you said having in-group ports isn't a big deal. Anyone who plays with in-group ports being readily available instantly knows how misguided this take is. It enables chasing timed repops across Norrath instead of sitting at the same camp grinding mobs.