Victim disarmament zones

[runlvlzero]

I was repeating what someone else said for affect when using the term mongoloid.

I also acknowledged that technology, the world, our social landscape is different.

I'm quite patriotic. Fuck America, no. Fuck the liberal socialism that seems to be the fad now. Sure. The trend in politicians to be completely fixated on the whims of lobbyists and special interests. Sure. The dissolving of a Republic into one Federated... I dunno... Lobbyist Democracy?

I even acknowledged that I'm no expert on any of this. I tried to interject some meaningful philosophical ideals a few pages back.

But I don't hate you. Or your ideas. I just disagree. And in some cases pretty vehemently.

[runlvlzero]

Curse no edits. But to further repeat what I attempted to say as well in a prior post.

I even criticize myself in that I should probably stay the fuck out of these god damn political discussions (for the good any point of view). Yet its hard to keep myself STFU'd when something moves me.

But I know I am no imbecile.

[Malice_Mizer]

Lobbyists arose because of our Constitutionally protected right to petition the government. All special interests do this. It just so happens that in our current economic system, individual private firms wield the absolute pinnacle of power in a variety of ways.

It always amuses me how libertarians argue that weakening the government and handing even more power over to private firms will somehow increase freedom. It will not. The vast majority of our problems come from the concentration of power in private hands-- often multinational corporations who have little interest in any of your patriotic crap. They do whatever it takes to maintain acceptable margins of profitability, including outsourcing the labor market and slashing worker's benefits and wages. It will lead further into the immiseration of the masses, the continued hyper-concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the very few, and the eventual recognition that capitalism and the world we all want are not compatible states of existence. This unsustainable path will bleed America dry and then move on to the next super power without batting an eye. Have fun with that while the rest of us liberal socialists try to develop some power for the public to stand up for our own self-interests.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Lobbyists arose because of our Constitutionally protected right to petition the government. All special interests do this. It just so happens that in our current economic system, individual private firms wield the absolute pinnacle of power in a variety of ways.

It always amuses me how libertarians argue that weakening the government and handing even more power over to private firms will somehow increase freedom. It will not. The vast majority of our problems come from the concentration of power in private hands-- often multinational corporations who have little interest in any of your patriotic crap. They do whatever it takes to maintain acceptable margins of profitability, including outsourcing the labor market and slashing worker's benefits and wages. It will lead further into the immiseration of the masses, the continued hyper-concentration of wealth and power in the hands of the very few, and the eventual recognition that capitalism and the world we all want are not compatible states of existence. This unsustainable path will bleed America dry and then move on to the next super power without batting an eye. Have fun with that while the rest of us liberal socialists try to develop some power for the public to stand up for our own self-interests.

Expertly said. I don't know how to mesh that with more libertarian ideals. I'm sure their not necessarily mutually exclusive though.

[Malice_Mizer]

The Law of Disproportionality.

The Law of Accumulation.

The Law of Falling Rate of Profits.

Simply put, our shared idealism is not compatible with capitalism. The conflict can be softened, but it will always return worse than before.

Our society derives all of its values and morals from the current state of economic activity. Until that changes, the greedy, self-interested hyper-materialism of the powerful few will always be the norm. And worst of all, there will always be a large chunk of America that views this as the way it ought to be. John Steinbeck said that socialism never took root in America because the working and lower class doesn't see themselves as the oppressed proletariat that they are, but rather "temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Sound familiar?

[runlvlzero]

I suppose what I want to see is a weaker federal government and more strong cohesive and broad local government. That would mean Monsanto would have to get permission from every individual county. Or individual states would subsidy crops. Not the federal government.

While I agree wall street would need Federal or national management. Perhaps the federal government shouldn't be in charge of bailing out banks and banks should be required to register and operate individual corporations in every county/jurisdiction where they have a branch. Sure more bureaucratic overhead. But it would hetrogenize (made up word!) some of the things that are so centrally controlled by special interest.

[runlvlzero]

Originally Posted by Malice_Mizer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Law of Disproportionality.

The Law of Accumulation.

The Law of Falling Rate of Profits.

Simply put, our shared idealism is not compatible with capitalism. The conflict can be softened, but it will always return worse than before.

Our society derives all of its values and morals from the current state of economic activity. Until that changes, the greedy, self-interested hyper-materialism of the powerful few will always be the norm. And worst of all, there will always be a large chunk of America that views this as the way it ought to be. John Steinbeck said that socialism never took root in America because the working and lower class doesn't see themselves as the oppressed proletariat that they are, but rather "temporarily embarrassed millionaires." Sound familiar?

yeah.

[Malice_Mizer]

Quick and choppy overview of some basic Marxist principles about capitalism. I think everybody can recognize all of these facts in their daily lives as being noncontroversial truths.

Law of Disproportionality
Capitalism never successfully coordinates production and consumption. Capitalism will always create surpluses of some goods and shortages of others. Shortages / surpluses spread throughout entire economic system. Unplanned economies are characterized by constant stream of production crises (bubbles). Rational economic behavior is not possible. Long-term prosperity / growth is not possible. Think of every bubble you can imagine: .Com bubble, housing market, even smaller things like the Beanie Baby craze in the 90's. Firms and individuals perceive demand of a product and a deluge of suppliers flood into the market, until it's realized that the supply does not meet the demand and huge numbers of firms crash. Supply and demand never "meet up" in this perfect equilibrium state that market-champions claim. There are always massive disparities that lead to huge structural problems across the entire market, i.e. markets are not nearly as "efficient" as everybody blabbers on about. Markets are notoriously inefficient. So, contrary to Rand and Ron Paul, bubbles are not the product of "too much government interference," but rather an unchecked market place where individuals can allocate resources in irrational and honestly stupid ways that affect every other facet of the economy. When all of that polyester went into making the billion Beanie Babies that nobody bought once the fad passed, all of those resources were wasted by supply and demand not meeting up. That means a negative effect for industrial polyester thread, clothing, etc. all across the market.

Law of Accumulation
Capitalism organically leads to concentration of capital: Markets create competition between firms. Competition eliminates inefficient or ineffective firms. Dominant firms hold increasingly large shares of markets. Technological development makes production more efficient. Fewer laborers required to maintain constant level of production. Population increases a surplus of labor reserves. Wealth inequality organically increases. Working class becomes increasingly immiserated (existential crisis of misery and worthlessness). Which leads into the next law:

Law of Falling Rate of Profit
Increasing efficiency lowers production costs. Decreasing production costs + fixed profit margin = falling rate of profit over time. Two choices: Deal with falling rate of profit (never happens because firms are beholden to stockholders), or reduce labor cost for temporary boost of profit (cut benefits, wages and outsource jobs to cheaper international labor markets).

[runlvlzero]

Those are all legit. However corruption is what ruined communism in the USSR and China.

Even now China has huge ghost cities. People exploited each other through both systems. The solution is not more central government IMO. If there are more governments, more "communes" different communes can be allowed to thrive and different ones which become corrupt can be allowed to die without affecting the overall ecosystem of a country.

[JayN]

Damn malice, droping some knowledge on these trolls, so nice of you to take the time.

damn libatards niga lovers ruining mah country; excuse me i need to get back to beating and fuckign my daughter.