Help me with stats for my Rogue. Been to long

[JayFiveAlive]

Max STA and rest in STR.

DEX and AGI are a waste for a rogue! DEX supposedly helps procs, but you don't want procs as a rogue - that aggros like a mofo and even some good tanks will have problems if you proc a lot. Dead isn't worth it.

[Havick_T]

good stuff

[Tallenn]

IIRC, dex only affects hit rate for archery. For most melee, the only other thing it does is affect the rate at which proccing weapons go off. I"m not a rogue expert, but it seems to me that proccing weapons on a rogue isn't really that great an idea.

[Hasbinbad]

Anyone who doesn't say full Stamina then what's left in Strength in creation points for rogue is a fucking idiot.

The formula for rogue stats is like this:

Get STR to 188, then HP > AC > all

STR to 188 is easy to do with gear, even if you have low starting STR. Most rogue gear has STR on it, and 188 is not a high number. The reason you should get STR to 188 is because a level 50 shaman buff is +67 STR, 188 + 67 = 255.

After you get that, staying alive is your biggest goal. This is accomplished mainly through having more hps, and secondarily by increasing AC. Stamina supports HPs and AGI supports AC. STA is by FAR more efficient at increasing HPs than AGI is at increasing AC, so I do not bother with AGI at all, unless my choice is a STA + AGI item over JUST a similar amount of STA.

DEX is totally useless for a rogue, unless you're a proc rogue, and proc rogues are dumb. The whole point of being a rogue is maximizing your damage while minimizing your aggro, and procs (even if they suck) generate FAR more aggro than melee hits. Also, a high damage weapon in the main hand will outdamage a lower damage weapon with a proc over time hands down. A DEX build is "OK" if you do not have any other option, but honestly, you will do more dps over time and die a lot less if you focus on straight up melee damage.

Someone mentioned my creation point discussion post, here it is:
http://project1999.org/forums/showth...4711#post14711

[Havick_T]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone who doesn't say full Stamina then what's left in Strength in creation points for rogue is a fucking idiot.

The formula for rogue stats is like this:

Get STR to 188, then HP > AC > all

STR to 188 is easy to do with gear, even if you have low starting STR. Most rogue gear has STR on it, and 188 is not a high number. The reason you should get STR to 188 is because a level 50 shaman buff is +67 STR, 188 + 67 = 255.

After you get that, staying alive is your biggest goal. This is accomplished mainly through having more hps, and secondarily by increasing AC. Stamina supports HPs and AGI supports AC. STA is by FAR more efficient at increasing HPs than AGI is at increasing AC, so I do not bother with AGI at all, unless my choice is a STA + AGI item over JUST a similar amount of STA.

DEX is totally useless for a rogue, unless you're a proc rogue, and proc rogues are dumb. The whole point of being a rogue is maximizing your damage while minimizing your aggro, and procs (even if they suck) generate FAR more aggro than melee hits. Also, a high damage weapon in the main hand will outdamage a lower damage weapon with a proc over time hands down. A DEX build is "OK" if you do not have any other option, but honestly, you will do more dps over time and die a lot less if you focus on straight up melee damage.

Someone mentioned my creation point discussion post, here it is:
http://project1999.org/forums/showth...4711#post14711

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.][You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really great info man thank you!

[Karorn]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyone who doesn't say full Stamina then what's left in Strength in creation points for rogue is a fucking idiot.

This

[Hasbinbad]

As far as weapon choices, as a rogue your mainhand always needs to be a pierce unless you don't want to backstab (or you're a crackhead that wants to "switch out" a high ratio weapon for a high damage piercer and back every 6 seconds). As far as the offhand, ratio is king. Nothing else matters as far as weapon choice, rogues can use 1hb, 1hs, or 1hp in offhand with equal effectiveness (relative to skill, i.e. if your 1hb is 32 and your 1hs is 132, your 1hs will be more effective UNTIL you raise your 1hb similarly).

I've actually started to do some research as far as aggro generation, and while I don't know 100% how it works here, I have a hypothesis that needs testing here. I've found several places where this idea was discussed on live, but I don't fully understand it yet.

Question: How does mob aggro generate from rogue damage?
Observation: Slower weapons seem to generate less aggro than faster weapons, even if the ratio and/or dps output is similar.
Hypothesis: Mob aggro is based on potential damage per hit rather than actual damage.

If true, this would mean that - given a static ratio, and the lack of 100% damage on every hit - a slower weapon will always generate less aggro than a faster weapon. Ergo, warriors should use low delay weapons of similar ratio to the best available weapon, sacrificing the high damage high delay weapons. Conversely, a rogue would do better to hit slower but harder with those high damage high delay weapons.

Also, I think that total damage dealt DOES increase aggro, but number of hits is a larger determinant.

[Karorn]

Originally Posted by Hasbinbad [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

As far as the offhand, ratio is king.

This is the only thing I've seen you say that I think may be inaccurate. Once again, things may work different here, but on live that wasn't true. The reason for this is that your offhand's swings aren't determined by the speed of the weapon in that hand. The way DW works in EQ is that every time your main hand swings the game makes a check on your DW skill. If it passes then your offhand swings. This is why Monks with a moss covered twig and a high damage/high delay offhand was one of the most retardedly OP things in the game. This is also why that weapon was only in the game for an extremely short time compared to things like the Mana Stone.

[Ferok]

Originally Posted by Karorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is the only thing I've seen you say that I think may be inaccurate. Once again, things may work different here, but on live that wasn't true. The reason for this is that your offhand's swings aren't determined by the speed of the weapon in that hand. The way DW works in EQ is that every time your main hand swings the game makes a check on your DW skill. If it passes then your offhand swings. This is why Monks with a moss covered twig and a high damage/high delay offhand was one of the most retardedly OP things in the game. This is also why that weapon was only in the game for an extremely short time compared to things like the Mana Stone.

This was my understanding as well. It's why Wurmslayer was such a popular offhand as well.

I believe they changed that at some point though, perhaps post velious. Otherwise people would have never put Wurmslayers away.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Karorn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason for this is that your offhand's swings aren't determined by the speed of the weapon in that hand. The way DW works in EQ is that every time your main hand swings the game makes a check on your DW skill.

This isn't true here, and it wasn't true on live.

To prove it to yourself, put a fire beetle eye or some other non-weapon in your mainhand and a weapon in your offhand and hit attack.

You still hit with your offhand, so what you are saying cannot be true.

Sorry Charlie, and TY to Reiker for that test.