How to fix rangers and warriors without losing the "classic" feel.

[Duie]

your point about rangers being designed as range classess in this era is simply not true sir

[Gustahn]

[QUOTE=Duie;316790]your point about rangers being designed as range classess in this era is simply not true sir[/QUOTE

In the sense of hybrid nature yes, not a full fledge stance.

They just didnt get it till vel/luc era when everyone got what they were suppose to have all along.

[greatdane]

I see all this crap about how much DPS a ranger does in a group, Are you consedering the magic damage as well? have you even parsed a lvl 60 monk to a lvl 60 ranger? you maybe suprised. evenly geared, evenly leveled, A ranger who plays his or her class to its full potental can and does hold there own

A monk still out-damages a ranger, all else being equal. Rogues as well, by a significant margin. It's a bit harder to gauge the caster classes because it can be so random and variable, but if they fix pet damage, I'm sure magicians and possibly even necros on longer fights will out-perform a ranger.

A ranger's DPS will be roughly equal to, or possibly slightly higher than, a warrior's. Only for as long as the ranger has mana, however, and even with clarity, you won't be able to keep up a steady flow of nuke/dot damage forever. If the group is chain pulling, you won't really have opportunity to med up. If the fight is long, you'll run out of mana before the end. Rangers are bad DPS compared to the other classes in that category. Woodsman's Staff will possibly bump a ranger's raw melee damage to the level of a warrior's, but if a warrior was to fill a DPS role, they'd have access to nearly-identical weapons anyway.

"Holding your own" is a matter of interpretation. A ranger can do his job reasonably if he doesn't suck, so in that sense, he can pull his weight well enough. If holding your own means performing as well as other classes in the category of whatever role you currently fill, the ranger doesn't, being the worst in every category it can possibly be squeezed into. Rangers do alright, but the group would pretty much always be stronger if the ranger had been another DPS or tank class (whichever they're tasked with doing). It's only if the group needs a DPS who can also root, snare, track and harmony that a ranger becomes a remotely appealing option. Needless to say, this practically never happens. If the mob flee mechanic worked like it should, rangers would be slightly more wanted, but not a whole lot considering how common snares and roots are.

[baalzy]

Didn't read the rest of the thread. The ultimate fix for these classes is this:

Wait.

They'll be fixed according to the timeline.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't read the rest of the thread. The ultimate fix for these classes is this:

Wait.

They'll be fixed according to the timeline.

[skybluepugwash]

Rangers and warriors are pretty much where they were on live in Kunark as I remember it. Things change for both classes in Velious so I don't see that any amendments outside the classic timeline are required.

The two issues I see that have both been mentioned here are:

1) mob run speed / flee speed
2) agro more dependent on procs than number of hits

These are widely acknowledged / dev confirmed as being different to live, but I can't find the reasons in a forum search (might be me being crap at searching). Can anyone point me in the right direction?

[YendorLootmonkey]

Originally Posted by baalzy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Didn't read the rest of the thread. The ultimate fix for these classes is this:

Wait.

They'll be fixed according to the timeline.

Depends on what you mean by 'fixed'. Rangers don't get a role defined for them until Luclin, which we've been told we won't see on this server.

In Velious, we get 2 Mins (or 18 seconds, depending on the raid tactic) of glory via disciplines, release from the class xp penalty, and Panic Animal so we don't have to beg to get into groups for XP. Most of the rangers experiencing these issues now will already be 60 (except for me, at the rate i'm going), so the last two are a bit of a moot point.

[Dantes]

A lot changed after Velious, Warriors really came into their own. We still have a patch coming later that allows us to taunt mobs at higher levels. I think part of the perception that we suck so bad here comes from other melee classes being overpowered. Apparently the devs think so too - we've seen nerfs (corrections) to rogues, monks, and ShadowKnights that level the playing field a bit. That, and everyone is extremely well geared here.

[greatdane]

A big factor in the "warriors suck" perception is that gamers have lost the ability to wait. I'm sure pretty much every one of us has played WoW or one of its clones, and in those games, non-tanks expect to be able to unload immediately and with little concern for aggro if the tank knows what he's doing. If you try that in classic EQ with a warrior tank, he has no chance of keeping aggro. We used to have to give the tank five or ten seconds to build aggro even on exp mobs, and if you didn't do that, you knew aggro would ping-pong. Sometimes you didn't care if the group was strong enough to let the rogue or wizard take a few hits, but that's beside the point. If you want to engage instantly and unload without worry, get a hybrid tank. If you want more efficient CHs and a sturdier tank, get a warrior and be prepared to hold back a little.

[Dantes]

Originally Posted by greatdane [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you want to engage instantly and unload without worry, get a hybrid tank. If you want more efficient CHs and a sturdier tank, get a warrior and be prepared to hold back a little.

Or simply root every mob before mez break. I've noticed this works well, by the time root breaks I should have proc'd enough to really piss that mob off.