Spells: Enchanter Mesmerize does mem wipe too frequently

[Jibartik]

after playing as many and as much level 60 enchanter as I and many others have here, I can tell you this much: when I say I feel a difference I am 100% correct.

[DMN]

Originally Posted by Jibartik [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Giants and raid mobs?

Mez causes like no hate.

And you don’t see a creature that’s it’s immune to mass until you’re level 50...

Mez has a a farily high hate component comparable to other high hate generating spells like snare/slows. Even if it only had an extremely small hate component it wouldn't change the fact that a zero hate generating spell is noticeably different from a hate generating one and an unresistible spell is different from a resistible one.

[Jibartik]

Originally Posted by DMN [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Mez has a a farily high hate component comparable to other high hate generating spells like snare/slows. Even if it only had an extremely small hate component it wouldn't change the fact that a zero hate generating spell is noticeably different from a hate generating one and an unresistible spell is different from a resistible one.

Right now the safest/fastest thing you can do 1-49 when you have agro as an enchanter is to cast mez on a mob.

Originally Posted by TripSin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From 2001:

"A mesmerised monster also has around a 95% chance of having its Hate List wiped, similiar to the effects of Memory Blur."

http://web.archive.org/web/200105050...asp?SpellID=20

So I have been curious since I came back for green, maybe there was a change to mez in velious's timelines? maybe that never got swapped out when green launched?

idk these are my thoughts Ive had while futzing around on green this last year.

[TripSin]

From 2001:

"A mesmerised monster also has around a 95% chance of having its Hate List wiped, similiar to the effects of Memory Blur."

http://web.archive.org/web/200105050...asp?SpellID=20

[cubiczar]

Originally Posted by TripSin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

From 2001:

"A mesmerised monster also has around a 95% chance of having its Hate List wiped, similiar to the effects of Memory Blur."

http://web.archive.org/web/200105050...asp?SpellID=20

I mean maybe that is true depending on the level of the person writing the description and what they are testing on but the problem with stuff like this is that it can be garbage.

For instance:

Memory Blur Page

Note: The spell actually works by wiping an amount of damage done to the monster. If a monster has particularly large amounts of hitpoints it may take two or three blurs to wipe their list. The recast delay is quite long so don't expect it to save you all the time.

Now do we take this literally or just assume they don't know what they are talking about? The same is true for the 95% thing, maybe that is good info maybe it isn't, tough to say really. The dev quote from the other p99 thread on this is probably more reliable even though it is out of era because the base mechanics are less likely to get changed. But if you want to disprove the dev quote it probably needs a lot of in era posts so that you don't rely on a single opinion... like the hp deal for mem blur.

[TripSin]

Yeah, I wasn't trying to posit that as definitive evidence but more so to offer a counterpoint to the idea that the blur rate should be 1%.

[cubiczar]

Yeah I can't argue with you, the 1% thing is just way off, there was obviously more behind the scenes going on than just the raw spell modifier. I'm not sure it was ever as good as 95% on live though, even below level 17.

My memory says that when grouping in BB with my enchanter I would often mez stuff and have people break my mez and the mob would come for me. I also know though that I used to mez then debuff so did I just happen to debuff before they broke the mez? I don't know, and it doesn't matter because it's just my memories. Even questionable stuff like we found is better than my memory cause at least it hasn't degraded over time.

[Daldaen]

Memblur chance felt broken back when I played which is why I made that post 4 years ago. It sounds like it still is. However what I posted in that thread was accurate for PoP era and short any more substantial evidence of a chance, that is how it should function on P99.

A much more substantial issue however is that the memblur component from a mez spell should only trigger when the spell initially lands. Refreshing mez on a target should not trigger the memblur component again. You need to either wait for the mez to wear off and then recast the mez or you need to overwrite that mez with another mez spell (IE Mesmerize for Dazzle). But that brings up another long standing issue with enchanter mesmerize spell overwriting not functioning properly on P99.

[Dolalin]

Okay I don't feel like weighing the truth of this claim right now, but it was easy enough to pull some threads about mez/mem-blur from the eq-archives, so here they are.

1. October 2000 thread from castersrealm forums, pretty good comments about effectiveness:

https://web.archive.org/web/20001211...ML/000811.html

2. June 2002 thread from castersrealm forums, a little out of era but still worth a read, mentions an 'upgrade patch' that might be worth nailing down, probably in Luclin if I had to guess:

https://forums.crgaming.com/cgi-bin/...c&f=9&t=007423

3. Nov 2003 thread from therunes.net (enchanter class site), touches on the 1% issue and it maybe not being totally accurate, pretty far out of era though, idk:

https://web.archive.org/web/20040104...php?p=9731&amp

4. Jan 2004 thread on Castersrealm, along with #1 it mentions that a chanter refreshing mez will never get a blur chance on a refresh of the mez, only if mez is not already active on the mob, also applies for other enchanters trying to refresh a mez. Again, rather far out of era though:

https://web.archive.org/web/20041107...p?p=861536&amp

5. This eqenchanters mailing list post from March 2000 says the following:

Hey Horchata, enthrall is a good spell, (entrance is better)
and yes it does have the properties of a memblur, but its not %100.
I thought they nerfed mesmerize way back level 30 mobs kept attacking after
i mesd them. Its because the higher level they are above the spell level,
the more chance they resist the memblur part. Anyway when fighting level
35-53 mobs

youll find the mes series doesnt quite wipe the hate list, and will find
yourself attacked very often. Memblur isnt %100 either but its chance for
success are much higher. If a mob is in combat how do you wipe its hate if
it aggros you or a caster? Enthrall may only make it angry with you.

https://github.com/dbsanfte/eq-archi...html/2440.html

6. CastersRealm forums thread from June 2002 that is pretty detailed and has logs of tests comparing mem blurs and mez/enthrall etc, defo worth a read:

https://web.archive.org/web/20020718...c&f=9&t=007338

7. CastersRealm forums thread from November 1999 talking about mez and blur chances:

https://web.archive.org/web/20000606...ML/000002.html

8. Everlore page for Memory Blur, in era, but not much here, typical low-quality Everlore page.

https://web.archive.org/web/20010714...ory+Blur&type=

[Dolalin]

From alt.games.everquest:

1. Thread from April 2000 discussing mem blur on mes:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/WBo1eHiX-roJ

2. Another one from June 2000 by the same ench that goes into some more detail:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/Ra2vvSHE-o0J

3. This is an "enchanters nerf list" from Feb 2000 and claims chance to mem blur on mes was reduced, not sure about timelines or veracity:

https://groups.google.com/g/alt.game...m/cIxhxuPKEk8J