Rogues

[Supaskillz]

Originally Posted by Cecily [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Over hyped casual raider weapon.

Thornstinger is what we are talking about.

Funny that it's overhyped when most rogues just don't use theirs. Way to get a dig in at casual eq players though.

@ Juevento your groups have way more push than mine if you have to always keep hand on hand on mouse to be properly positioned.

[Cecily]

That's not a dig, it's a description. TS doesn't perform as well as VP offhands. Casuals don't have VP offhands.
It's a nice soloing and tanking weapon, but I really don't care for it as a raiding weapon.

[Donruss]

Thanks [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Daldaen]

Why in the flying fuck would you use anything but RB in primary during Kunark?

[Yinikren]

Because the lower delay on a Thornstinger means that with the mainhand damage bonus it outdamages a Ragebringer in mainhand, no problem.

[Daldaen]

Except that you have to have Efreeti war spear on your cursor and swap it in every Backstab?

[Sckrilla]

I did a lot of extensive DPS trials with CE & Baxter back in the day when not many Rogues had either TS or RSSS. TS in MH - RSSS in OF, RB MH - RSSS OH, TS MH - RB OH, etc.

TS MH - RSSS OH (assuming you had Sky belt or GSB's) was pretty equal to sustained DPS you'd see with RB MH - RSSS OH; swapping in RB for TS for backstabs decreased DPS in the long run. So with that being said, most VP geared Rogues are going to roll with RB/RSSS and non-VP geared Rogues that have the capability of obtaining a TS should roll it MH with RB OH. Too lazy and preoccupied during raid encounters to bother with ever wanting to switch in and out weapons to begin with.

I miss having TS in MH, RSSS OH and RB in Ranged. =\

[Yinikren]

No, the mainhand damage bonus alone covers the 3 damage difference off backstabs if you choose to weapon swap. You guys severely underrate the mainhand damage bonus, which is the same reason weapons like a Revultant Whip get made fun of, despite being so fast that the ratio literally does not matter because you are swinging almost twice a second. Why the hell do you think the mosscovered branch got nerfed?

You basically hit a point where you are attacking so fast that your mainhand damage bonus makes up for (and exceeds) any damage you would get from wielding a higher damage, slower weapon. Check on the velious forums about everyone bitching about hitting for minimum damage a LOT during boss battles because of mob AC - Trust me, you'd much rather be hitting for minimum damage at 7 delay than at 12.5. You got babied with low AC Kunark mobs.

Let's do some maths. A rogue at 100% haste mainhands a Thornstinger and then a Ragebringer to test his mainhand damage.

With the Ragebringer, he swings 48 times a second (600/12.5). Of those swings, 60% ((240skill+60level/500)=.6) are double attacks. Accuracy at max weapon skill on an even con mob is around 66%. Your minimum mainhand hit will always be 12 (Damage bonus of 11+1 for connecting) So, for the numbers:

48+60%= approximately mainhand 76 swings per minute. Around 50 (66% accuracy) of those land. So just for turning on autoattack, your Ragebringer does a guaranteed 600 damage a minute from your damage bonus alone.

Now he mainhands a Thornstinger, which gets 66 swings a minute, or 105 with double attack factored in. That's 69 average hits per minute for 828 guaranteed damage. See where I am going here?

That's guaranteed, unmitigated damage. You can't hit lower than 12, so on these bosses where it actually matters, the faster your hits, the better off you are in the long run.

For funsies, ranger math works out to about 1068 damage per minute just from the mainhand damage bonus when wielding a revultant whip.

[Cecily]

Originally Posted by Yinikren [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So just for turning on autoattack, your Ragebringer does a guaranteed 600 damage a minute from your damage bonus alone.

That's 69 average hits per minute for 828 guaranteed damage. See where I am going here?

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's a 228 damage gap based purely on delay. Now call me crazy, but that's not much. Factor in the higher POTENTIAL hits from a 15 dmg weapon on regular melee attacks and backstabs and it's pretty easy to see that RB is the superior weapon, most of the time.

TS is a tanking and solo weapon. Every Velious parse I've seen with TS main hand has been disastrous.

[Juevento]

Cecily must play one of those lucky rogues that doesn't miss half their backstabs and always hits for max dmg.