Incorrect definition of casuals

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by Sinestria [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't think that there is one person on this server that wants to be woken up by a batphone to inevitably lose out on dragon pixels.

I have social contracts. I'm a regional manager for a healthcare company, which means I work monday to friday 9-5 and I'm on-call for problems that arise because healthcare is 24/7/365.

I am willing to wake up to batphones, even if that means losing a race to FE. If I wasn't, I wouldn't be in TMO, and I would accept that I probably wouldn't be able to compete within the established server rules for mobs like Gods & VP.

I'll even point out that my job/life requirements have increased immensely since I became a full member in TMO, and that I have not gotten hardly any loot since my raid attendance has dropped tremendously since April 2013. I accept this. Why should everyone else have to compete for mobs for my benefit? Why should FE or IB or any guild have to wait for me to log in and go kill a dragon when their needs and time schedules are just as valid and arbitrary as mine?

The reason I take that stance is because I understand that this game does not have to give me anything.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm just saying that, if the game must cater to your stipulations, then what you're really asking is for everyone else to work their time around yours.

At least I'm not forcing them to acquiesce.

It's just not the way it was. The extremes here are ratcheted way up and it's a bummer to the people trying to play a game rather than win a game. I remember scheduled raids, not invasive ones. It's a sad, absurd length that a baffling number of players are willing to suffer.

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

At least I'm not forcing them to acquiesce.

It's just not the way it was. The extremes here are ratcheted way up and it's a bummer to the people trying to play a game rather than win a game. I remember scheduled raids, not invasive ones. It's a sad, absurd length that a baffling number of players are willing to suffer.

Yes, this server is a bit different from the classic experience and it will never turn back time. We just need to find a way to play with each other nicely, regardless of what level of player you are. Hate to say it, if you want to do end-game content, you gotta answer that batphone. The server wont ever be casual. This is a server of ALL of the hardcore raiders back in the day. Hell, some of these players were kids while they watched their parents hardcore raid. Its in their blood (lol).

Ya cant take a buncha uberguilded likeminded types and put em on one server and expect the competition to be weak. FOH couldnt handle this server, I am positive on that one.

[Hitpoint]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The line, in my opinion, is the batphone tactic.

The game should slot nicely into my free time.

It should not wake me up at night. Ever. It should not disrupt my business nor my social contracts. Ever.

Ok I'm going to explain the batphone for those who don't know how it works. Since there are obviously a lot of misconceptions.

For starters you never have to answer a batphone, that's why there's probably 100+ people on it but 30 people respond for targets. Many of those are choosing not to log in for it.

Next, you never have to be woken up by a batphone. With ours you can choose between what hours you recieve a text. If i want to sleep at night, I can easily make 11:00 pm - 7:00 am off limits and I'll get no texts from the batphone during those hours.

In short, you choose when to receive the texts and you choose when to respond. It can absolutely fit into your free time, and in no way has to be an inconvenience. In fact, it's for convenience. If you have a limited amount of time to play, batphone makes sure you can make the most of it.

[Sadre Spinegnawer]

I agree with this post. Time and technology contributes to the change. Both for more hardcore, to less hardcore.

How many people, good players, had to suffer from bad dialup back in 2000? How many had cellphones?

3-4 nights a week was hardcore. Plus I will add this observation. I seem to remember raid nights going quite long. Log in at 5est, go to 1-3am was not unusual. Log on, kill shit, log off, did not exist yet. I am sure there were technological and social reasons for that. Not least of which, how can we forget just how damn often, a server would crash, or a router would go down and you would lose all of your players from certain time zones?

In a sense, 3-4 days a week used to be more hardcore. Because those were long nights.

[Durka]

Originally Posted by Sadre Spinegnawer [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with this post. Time and technology contributes to the change. Both for more hardcore, to less hardcore.

How many people, good players, had to suffer from bad dialup back in 2000? How many had cellphones?

3-4 nights a week was hardcore. Plus I will add this observation. I seem to remember raid nights going quite long. Log in at 5est, go to 1-3am was not unusual. Log on, kill shit, log off, did not exist yet. I am sure there were technological and social reasons for that. Not least of which, how can we forget just how damn often, a server would crash, or a router would go down and you would lose all of your players from certain time zones?

In a sense, 3-4 days a week used to be more hardcore. Because those were long nights.

Oh wow the long nights....but I had great times!

Yes, technology and knowledge of the game itself have been the clutch on the p99 experiment. We all know how to play the game too well and we have less problems than we had back in those days. Very good observation there. Its funny, because we raided fear a few nights ago, cleared it in just under 2 hours with a small group. We use to have 30-40 in fear and cleared it in 6+ hours! Pretty amazing how things are today vs yesteryear.

[Barkingturtle]

Originally Posted by goshozal [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The reason I take that stance is because I understand that this game does not have to give me anything.

We differ here. The game owes me a good time. It stops providing that and we're breaking up. Luckily, it gives me that even without raiding. Of course, our relationship could always be better.

And honestly, the batphone thing is just me I guess. I can't imagine ever answering a call, even within some predefined parameters. Because the only time I want to play Everquest is that time I decide to log in. I am just not that into killing dragons. This does mean I am casual scum, despite the fact I could easily schedule multiple hours to play, every day.

[citizen1080]

My post from another thread that is relevant.

Not attacking you Jeremy, just saw this as a good spot to comment on this.


Many of us want to raid. Raid like we did on live. However, we have no interest in the current meta game that rules p99. The raid scene here is NOTHING like live was on any of the servers I played on. I for one don't want welfare mobs. But the current meta game required to see raid pixels is retarded. Just because we haven't been "hardcore' raiders on p99 in the past doesn't make our opinions any less valid.

You have stated many times that P99 is the first time you personally have played EQ. This is the only raiding you know. And honestly that sucks man, this is such a shit show compared to live it isn't even worth participating in for many of us.

Anyways...carry on

[goshozal]

Originally Posted by Barkingturtle [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

We differ here. The game owes me a good time. It stops providing that and we're breaking up. Luckily, it gives me that even without raiding. Of course, our relationship could always be better.

And honestly, the batphone thing is just me I guess. I can't imagine ever answering a call, even within some predefined parameters. Because the only time I want to play Everquest is that time I decide to log in. I am just not that into killing dragons. This does mean I am casual scum, despite the fact I could easily schedule multiple hours to play, every day.

Originally Posted by citizen1080 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My post from another thread that is relevant.

Not attacking you Jeremy, just saw this as a good spot to comment on this.


Many of us want to raid. Raid like we did on live. However, we have no interest in the current meta game that rules p99. The raid scene here is NOTHING like live was on any of the servers I played on. I for one don't want welfare mobs. But the current meta game required to see raid pixels is retarded. Just because we haven't been "hardcore' raiders on p99 in the past doesn't make our opinions any less valid.

You have stated many times that P99 is the first time you personally have played EQ. This is the only raiding you know. And honestly that sucks man, this is such a shit show compared to live it isn't even worth participating in for many of us.

Anyways...carry on

Casuals are not scum, anymore than hardcore players are.

The only thing I'm trying to get across here is that these are perceived relative terms. I'm in TMO, but I actually consider myself casual!

The game doesn't owe anything to either camp. What each camp owes each other is, in Xasten's words, a meta game that rewards the hardcores for their willingness to compete, while respecting the casual player's desire to participate.'

Unfortunately, as I said to you previously Bob, this server is nothing like live. 3 years of Kunark has given rise to a completely unsustainable raiding population for the number of available targets. This is not the fault of the casuals or the hardcores. And this shortage of targets per capita has led to vast new heights of what we refer to as "hardcore."

I still boggle at the idea of the players being forced to "solve" a problem that they did not necessarily create. This is why I was so strongly supportive of Loraen's repop ideas: because I believe that the problem can be lessened only by an increase of available targets per capita. Velious or repops, or both.

But making it into a character battle between two arbitrarily defined camps is woefully myopic.

[webrunner5]

If you are are a person that has say two level 60 toons you probably spend less time raiding on them then people spend leveling up on say a 50 toon.

Who is Hard Core? The person that spends 20 hours a week leveling or 20 hours a week tracking, killing top end content?? Seems the same to me but the 60's are being bashed to hell on here. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]