A simple poll regarding player raid rules

[Humerox]

Who gets the spawn if the guild that is at bat is sleeping?

[Agaron]

Originally Posted by Humerox [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Who gets the spawn if the guild that is at bat is sleeping?

Most guilds on live never missed their time up to bat, and if they did I imagine someone in leadership would log in and forfeit it at said time. I'd guess since guild population isn't as huge as live you'd prob have to make a player rule on how long you have to give it up, or give a set time that would make it near impossible not to miss.

But realistically as much as people want a rotation I highly doubt all the big zerg guilds currently are going to want to give up their 24/7 poopsocking phat loot for other guilds.

Rotation is the more peaceful way, but only way it will work is if 100% of the raiding guilds agree on it, and it would have to be reagreed on every so often for new guilds, and once you hit x amount of guilds, those guilds are going to get fed up with how many are in the rotation. No one is going to want to wait for 20 guilds to cycle.

What is the server going to do when there is enough big guilds to perma camp each of the raid bosses, and no other guilds will be able to push them out?

FFA still seems like the best choice. It might be chaotic, but at least it will be fun, and people can't whine to the GM about rules, because frankly there won't be any.

[Aadill]

I, too, post funny image macros. Here is a funny image macro:



















































I couldn't find one.

[Humerox]

Originally Posted by Agaron [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What is the server going to do when there is enough big guilds to perma camp each of the raid bosses, and no other guilds will be able to push them out?

We're already there. Big guilds are even starting to split camps. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Remiel]

Rotation but with only 1 hour windows, imo.

the 2nd guild on the list for the raid boss can call 1 hour to engage on the 1st guild and if they failed, 2nd guild gets their 1 hour to engage.

This:
- eliminates poopsocking (if the guild is confident on their ability to mobilise quickly - otherwise it's the guild's choice to keep poopsocking)
- gives other guilds a chance to the raid bosses given the 1 hour window

Fair system. everyone has their shot, if they dont work hard to get their kills, other guilds will get their shots.

[Daldolma]

FFA, IMO. First to engage has rights to the mob. EverQuest was never fair, it's not meant to be fair. It's meant to be fun and competitive. And here's what's not fun or competitive: camping a 15 minute encounter for 3 days. Here's what is fun and competitive: finding out Naggy just popped and seeing if you can mobilize enough people fast enough to a) beat Guilds X, Y, Z there, and b) actually succeed in killing Naggy.

And if you AFK 3/4 of your guild on top of a raid mob's spawn point, IMO, you should be 100% susceptible to being trained. Does it suck to get trained? Yeah. But it also sucks to ruin a game, and I'd argue that days-on-end AFK camping of raid mobs does a lot more to ruin this server than a little bit of rivalry. The irony is, NOBODY wins under the current server rules. Sure, IB and DA get the phat lewtz, but do they really enjoy AFK'ing for 48 hours and getting texted at 4 AM to log in for rezzes while poopsocking raid targets? I'm gonna venture a guess and say no -- I assume they do it because if they didn't, someone else would.

I appreciate everything the GMs do on this server, but in this case, IMO, they need to lay off and let the game dictate itself. In the grand scheme of things, I believe the multi-day camping of mobs is a lot worse for this server (and a lot more out of the classic-experience) than unfairness, training, and competition between guilds.

That being said, I do realize that discussing what is best for the server is a bit idealistic, as politics unfortunately play a large role in this matter.

[Agaron]

Originally Posted by Daldolma [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FFA, IMO. First to engage has rights to the mob. EverQuest was never fair, it's not meant to be fair. It's meant to be fun and competitive. And here's what's not fun or competitive: camping a 15 minute encounter for 3 days. Here's what is fun and competitive: finding out Naggy just popped and seeing if you can mobilize enough people fast enough to a) beat Guilds X, Y, Z there, and b) actually succeed in killing Naggy.

And if you AFK 3/4 of your guild on top of a raid mob's spawn point, IMO, you should be 100% susceptible to being trained. Does it suck to get trained? Yeah. But it also sucks to ruin a game, and I'd argue that days-on-end AFK camping of raid mobs does a lot more to ruin this server than a little bit of rivalry. The irony is, NOBODY wins under the current server rules. Sure, IB and DA get the phat lewtz, but do they really enjoy AFK'ing for 48 hours and getting texted at 4 AM to log in for rezzes while poopsocking raid targets? I'm gonna venture a guess and say no -- I assume they do it because if they didn't, someone else would.

I appreciate everything the GMs do on this server, but in this case, IMO, they need to lay off and let the game dictate itself. In the grand scheme of things, I believe the multi-day camping of mobs is a lot worse for this server (and a lot more out of the classic-experience) than unfairness, training, and competition between guilds.

That being said, I do realize that discussing what is best for the server is a bit idealistic, as politics unfortunately play a large role in this matter.

Wow. Someone else who feels the same.

[xorbier]

FFA. That would be so much fun. Rotation = welfare.

[Daldolma]

It's worse than welfare. Rotation doesn't fix the core problem of the current system, which is the total elimination of competition. The encounters in classic are not hard, given sufficient time and personnel. If you agree to just let one guild amass 30 people and spend half an hour prepping for a raid mob, this game is fucking easy. What made EQ end-game challenging was the time constraint, the fact that you were always on this time crunch to engage before another guild could beat you to the punch.

The whole dynamic is thrown off when there's no competition. You don't have to make the choice between engaging Naggy with 16 or waiting 5 minutes for another 5-6 people. There's no risk to waiting. In live, there was. You were trying to engage before the next guy, which means every guild would engage the second they had what they considered to be the absolute bare minimum in terms of personnel and preparation. That led to under-manning raid mobs, which is fun. And difficult. It's easy to wipe when you're going at it with too few raiders -- which would open the floor up for the next guild.

EQ Live end-game raiding was baseball. At the moment, P99 end-game raiding is tee-ball. You're not playing against anyone. You're just sizing it up and whacking the shit out of it.

[rioisk]

Why have we not looked at an obvious solution? Keep camp rules the way they are and return boss mobs to no variance. This would make it so if a guild wants to go kill Nagafen when they know he'll spawn then they must forfeit their camp rights to another target. Make it so a guild can only claim one target at a time so you don't get huge guilds split between multiple mobs.

This system would essentially equate to each raid target being permacamped by a single guild and switched between one another when they want different loot. Might be messy now with so few targets to kill but it'll get better with kunark. There must be less guilds than raid targets for this to work.