Best 4 person all caster/priest group - Page 27

Balimon · #**261** 08-23-2022, 03:30 AM

One thing to consider is damage shield, which isn't on those parses. The enchanter pets are going to have it, and it's significant. Math that up for us! Also for posterity; got some parses of the epic pet.

They are all taken from Stanos in High pass, muzzle and burnout going obviously.

2658 damage over 76 seconds @ 35 dps
3231 damage over 68 seconds @ 47.5 dps
5063 damage over 102 seconds @ 49.6 dps
3495 damage over 83 seconds @ 42 dps
4838 damage over 109 seconds @ 44.3 dps
4340 damage over 83 seconds @ 52.3 dps
4125 damage over 70 seconds @ 58.9 dps
2901 damage over 61 seconds @ 47.5 dps
Average DPS = 47.13

PatChapp · #**262** 08-23-2022, 05:50 AM

For sure the damage shield is significant,should only count it 19dmg over the enchanter damage shield however. Most enchanters will have the clickie earring
Whether or not they use it,that's questionable.

I try to keep it up,but I'm used to it from playing the mage

Toxigen · #**263** 08-23-2022, 08:31 AM

you can put up all the parses you want

its still 3x enc + 1 cleric

Troxx · #**264** 08-23-2022, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toxigen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

you can put up all the parses you want

its still 3x enc + 1 cleric

Agreed.

And if you can’t find a 3rd ench it sure as shite isn’t a shaman.

DeathsSilkyMist · #**265** 08-23-2022, 09:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Agreed.

And if you can’t find a 3rd ench it sure as shite isn’t a shaman.

Stop being a sore loser.

Honestly it depends on the camp, which is why 3x Enchanters isn't always best.

Shaman/Necro/Enchanter/Cleric would be better at Fungi King.

Mage/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric would be better at Juggs due to CoTH.

Shaman/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric would be better at Ixiblat Fer since you need Malo to get him slowed.

Enchanter/Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric would be better in Chardok, and could swap an Enchanter for a Necro since there are plenty of undead. Mage if you were doing Royals for CoTH.

DeathsSilkyMist · #**266** 08-23-2022, 10:14 AM

This post shows a level 60 Mage's average DPS. I will take into account damage shield since it was asked for.

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Average pet DPS: (46 + 60 + 56 + 52 + 75 + 57 + 50 + 55 + 52) / 9 = ~56 DPS.

A Mage with max Meditate and Clarity II is regenerating mana at 31 mana per tick. Let's assume this Mage has 3000 Mana to start with.

Max mana per hour: (31 mana x 10 ticks per minute x 60 minutes) + 3000 = 21600.

Shock of Steel costs 275 mana, so that means you can cast it a maximum of 78 times, assuming that is all you do and you meditate every tick.

Best possible player DPS: (825 damage x 78 nukes) / 3600 seconds = ~18 DPS.

For damage shield calculations it varies wildly based on what you are fighting, if you are using slow, etc.

I let a froglok jin wizard drain all of it's mana and then beat on me for a minute:

[Tue Aug 23 07:04:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:13 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:15 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:27 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:29 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:31 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:43 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:45 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:56 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:58 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:05:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.

That is 25 hits. A Mage's DS is 33, so that would be (33 x 25) / 60 = ~14 DPS. Basically an extra nuke.

This means a Mage is going to be doing around 88 DPS with an unfocused level 60 Water pet, with Clarity 2, with Damage Shield, while nuking at the absolute best. The real number is going to be lower, since a Mage is not realistically going to be using the maximum number of nukes per hour. They need to use mana for other things. The DS damage will probably be lower in a group too, since mobs may die faster than a minute, get slowed, etc. My guess is the real number is closer to 80 DPS.

PlsNoBan · #**267** 08-23-2022, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Are you autistic?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vexenu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

breathtaking autism

DeathsSilkyMist · #**268** 08-23-2022, 10:24 AM

Yes, PlsNoBan, your autism is preventing you from understanding basic math. I am sorry you have to live with the condition.

Crede · #**269** 08-23-2022, 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This post shows a level 60 Mage's average DPS. I will take into account damage shield since it was asked for.

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Average pet DPS: (46 + 60 + 56 + 52 + 75 + 57 + 50 + 55 + 52) / 9 = ~56 DPS.

A Mage with max Meditate and Clarity II is regenerating mana at 31 mana per tick. Let's assume this Mage has 3000 Mana to start with.

Max mana per hour: (31 mana x 10 ticks per minute x 60 minutes) + 3000 = 21600.

Shock of Steel costs 275 mana, so that means you can cast it a maximum of 78 times, assuming that is all you do and you meditate every tick.

Best possible player DPS: (825 damage x 78 nukes) / 3600 seconds = ~18 DPS.

For damage shield calculations it varies wildly based on what you are fighting, if you are using slow, etc.

I let a froglok jin wizard drain all of it's mana and then beat on me for a minute:

[Tue Aug 23 07:04:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:03 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:06 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:13 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:15 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:22 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:27 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:29 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:31 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:38 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:43 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:45 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:47 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:51 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:54 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:56 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:04:58 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.
[Tue Aug 23 07:05:01 2022] froglok jin wizard was hit by non-melee for 8 points of damage.

That is 25 hits. A Mage's DS is 33, so that would be (33 x 25) / 60 = ~14 DPS. Basically an extra nuke.

This means a Mage is going to be doing around 88 DPS with an unfocused level 60 Water pet, with Clarity 2, with Damage Shield, while nuking at the absolute best. The real number is going to be lower, since a Mage is not realistically going to be using the maximum number of nukes per hour. They need to use mana for other things. The DS damage will probably be lower in a group too, since mobs may die faster than a minute, get slowed, etc. My guess is the real number is closer to 80 DPS.

Shock of steel will be about 10-11% cheaper in mana btw due to the Mage conjure spec. Your data capturing is fairly accurate, it's the arguments behind them that are the waste of time and their actual applicability to how the game plays out in real time. I've told you this many times, you just don't know how to approach any sort of debatable topic, which is why you waste so much time trying to get some point across that doesn't matter.

Your scenarios require a shaman to basically be going bonkers 24/7 to maintain the mana to keep up with what a mage can do pretty lazily. Add in a focused water pet, or an epic pet, and it becomes even harder to keep up. Like why would you even want to try to do that? Most people will probably just get tired after 15 minutes and start clicking their jbb. People tend to be lazy in this game, especially in group settings. I've grouped with rogues who don't always even backstab. I don't think anybody in their right mind would invite a shaman over a mage in a dps role specifically for that reason alone.

I maintain my original stance that this 4 man combo should be Cleric, Enc, Mage, and Necro which is not only a more realistic composition but basically covers every scenario unless there's some insanely long list of mobs that I'm not aware of that needs 3 encs to kill. I don't think I've ever seen 3 enchanters group up in my life.

Edit: We all know shaman's are overall a very powerful class, it was really dumb to even give them Torpor, that should have gone to druids.

DeathsSilkyMist · #**270** 08-23-2022, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shock of steel will be about 10-11% cheaper in mana btw due to the Mage conjure spec. Your data capturing is fairly accurate, it's the arguments behind them that are the waste of time and their actual applicability to how the game plays out in real time. I've told you this many times, you just don't know how to approach any sort of debatable topic, which is why you waste so much time trying to get some point across that doesn't matter.

Your scenarios require a shaman to basically be going bonkers 24/7 to maintain the mana to keep up with what a mage can do pretty lazily. Add in a focused water pet, or an epic pet, and it becomes even harder to keep up. Like why would you even want to try to do that? Most people will probably just get tired after 15 minutes and start clicking their jbb. People tend to be lazy in this game, especially in group settings. I've grouped with rogues who don't always even backstab. I don't think anybody in their right mind would invite a shaman over a mage in a dps role specifically for that reason alone.

I maintain my original stance that this 4 man combo should be Cleric, Enc, Mage, and Necro which is not only a more realistic composition but basically covers every scenario unless there's some insanely long list of mobs that I'm not aware of that needs 3 encs to kill. I don't think I've ever seen 3 enchanters group up in my life.

Specialization would give you maybe 2 DPS since you could do 10% more nukes.

No, the Shaman wouldn't really need to go bonkers. They can keep up the 70 DPS for 70 mobs hehe. In a higher level area you aren't killing 70 mobs per hour due to camp restrictions and 30 minute timers. This means realistically you would have more downtime, no need to constantly cast.

Cleric/Ench/Shaman/Neco would be better. You could do more camps such as Fungi King and again DPS isn't going to be hurt much by using the Shaman instead. I have clearly shown Mage DPS isn't significantly better, and Shamans bring more utility to the table.

Remember this thread is a semi unrealistic scenario to begin with. If you want DPS you would always bring a Rogue over a Mage. The last rogue I parsed in Sebilis was doing 133 DPS, which is much better than a Mage playing their best.