Best 4 person all caster/priest group

[Troxx]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are camps that an Enchanter/Enchanter/Cleric/Druid group couldn't do. West Waste Dragons and Ixiblat Fer are two that come to mind.

Ok that’s 2 camps ... one of which isn’t a camp really. What about the other 99.9% of groupable content in Norrath.

You’re not making a strong case yet …

We need facts! Math! Logic! Above all … we need concrete thinking!

Why waste a spot on 55 dps of shaman when a druid brings o so much more non-redundant utility and emergency life saving prowess … and can nuke better than you?!

100% up time potg in a full caster group is sounding pretty good right about now. That’s a lot of extra mana for everybody involved rather than the self-cannibalizing shaman who is still only 55dps.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Ok that’s 2 camps ... one of which isn’t a camp really. What about the other 99.9% of groupable content in Norrath.

You’re not making a strong case yet …

The only thing that matters if you want to min/max the game with a group is kills per hour and number of doable camps. Everything else can be covered externally, such as ports from other players.

Shaman offers more doable camps than Mage or Druid, and their DPS isn't lowering your kills per hour. So the Shaman gives the better number of doable camps and maintains your kills per hour.

They also offer a lot of safety, which means your kills per hour remain consistent. Every wipe your group has will lower their average kills per hour.

Leveling with a 4 man caster group is going to be fast, whether you have a Shaman, a Mage, or a Druid. It's already going to be a great leveling experience.

If you care more about the leveling experience, other classes would be better than a Shaman from 1-60. I said this on page 1. But since OP didn't specify the level range, I am taking into consideration the entire game, including level 60 farming.

I don't know why this bothers you so much you have to troll for hundreds of posts.

[Troxx]

I am applying DSM logic.

A). The mage does more than double the damage of the shaman. We don’t need that extra dps so let’s take redundant utility.

B) a focused dps druid will put out 80-90% of a shamans dps in nukes and adds DS along with a ton of utility. Some is redundant but lots of it is not.

Therefore druid is actually better than a shaman in this group!

Again. I we’re playing along and have hopped aboard the DSM thought-train. (Choo choo!)

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I am applying DSM logic.

A). The mage does more than double the damage of the shaman. We don’t need that extra dps so let’s take redundant utility.

B) a focused dps druid will put out 80-90% of a shamans dps in nukes and adds DS along with a ton of utility. Some is redundant but lots of it is not.

Therefore druid is actually better than a shaman in this group!

Again. I we’re playing along and have hopped aboard the DSM thought-train. (Choo choo!)

A) Glad you agree we don't need the extra DPS.

B) This is where you run into trouble. A Shaman offers more than a Druid. It is why Shamans can solo way more camps than a Druid can. So no, this isn't correct. Don't you find it odd that the best class in the game (Enchanter) is also the best soloer? Shamans also happen to be a top tier soloer. Coincidence?

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A Shaman offers more than a Druid

Not in this group it doesn't. By itself? Sure. I forgot you don't understand the difference between soloing and grouping.

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Not in this group it doesn't. By itself? Sure. I forgot you don't understand the difference between soloing and grouping.

No, you don't understand the difference, which is why you think DPS changes in a group if the group is playing correctly. If another player isn't affecting your DPS negatively, your solo and group DPS will match. Obviously you can get buffs in a group, but if you had those buff solo, the DPS would be the same again.

If you take the top two solo classes and put them in a duo, you open up all of the camp options that both an Enchanter and a Shaman can do by themselves, which is a large portion of the game. Being in a group also opens up camps that you cannot do solo.

This is why the Shaman/Enchanter/Monk trio is so strong. All three are top solo classes. Monk is the weakest of the three, but it is still the strongest melee-only soloing class. Put them together, and you are easily doing all the camps that any of them could do solo, and more.

You honestly don't need as much DPS and CHing as you think lol. This game really isn't that hard, and most mobs are tuned for players with gear below what P99ers typically have due to the server being in stasis. That is why the DPS breakpoints aren't that hard to hit. Everybody knows everything, and are typically over geared.

[PlsNoBan]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shaman/Enchanter/Monk trio is so strong

You're the only person I've ever seen praise this trio so much. It's not one that is particularly popular in my experience. People either run Monk/Shaman which is a great duo or Enchanter/Cleric which is probably the strongest overall duo in the game. Monk/Shaman is better in certain situations though for sure. Have no problem admitting this. Seems kinda weird to shoehorn an enchanter into a monk/shaman duo. I'm sure it works fine. Not sure I'd call it the best trio though. Charm pets at endgame have like 8k hp. It's a lot to heal with torpor (I know I've done it) and it directly nerfs your groups damage by a pretty significant amount. A cleric would easily be a better choice here since the enchanter can slow and has all the CC you'd ever need.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by DeathsSilkyMist [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A) Glad you agree we don't need the extra DPS.

B) This is where you run into trouble. A Shaman offers more than a Druid. It is why Shamans can solo way more camps than a Druid can. So no, this isn't correct. Don't you find it odd that the best class in the game (Enchanter) is also the best soloer? Shamans also happen to be a top tier soloer. Coincidence?

It is clear from point B that DSM has no understanding of solo vs group dynamics. It's either completely noobish, or a trolling, or both? Myself and others have pointed this out many times.

Please nobody continue down this path with him(except cyx, because I love reading your posts)

[PlsNoBan]

I made the druid argument earlier in this thread somewhere. Don't care to dig for it. Druid is a WAY better option than shaman if animals are available to charm. It's not even a contest in a zone like Chardok. Likely better even without charm. In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that "safety" is needed beyond 2 encs and a cleric. Druid direct healing is as good/better? Torpor isn't an emergency heal for when shit hits the fan. Druid also has the option of evac. Their utility has less overlap with the existing group and their buffs are better for casters than shaman buffs. I said this before somewhere but the only caster/priest class that is potentially WORSE for this group is Wizard. I honestly think literally every other caster/priest would be preferable to shaman for this specific group makeup.

I like how we went back to Ixiblat and WW dragons being the only thing a shaman is better for. Just stick to that argument DSM. It's the best one you've got. The best 4 caster/priest group solely for ixiblat and ww dragons probably includes shaman. The rest of it is just plain bullshit. Nobody is basing their group comp for the entire 1-60 process just so they can do ixi and ww slightly better and ignoring 99% of the rest of the lvl 60 content.

[slard271]

Originally Posted by PlsNoBan [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

... snip ... I said this before somewhere but the only caster/priest class that is potentially WORSE for this group is Wizard. ... snip ...

My wizard has an EoN, epic, white dragonscale boots, a cazic brain, a manna robe, and a rend robe so basically FT11 plus clicky nukes and ghetto canni. I could probably give this a run for the money. But first I had to get an EoN, epic, white dragonscale boots, a cazic brain, a manna robe, and a rend robe. But I mean that's just my pocket wiz hehe. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]