Enchanter charm isn't classic, we all know this

[sentinel]

Yet.

[Ligma]

That's all true but the point is that most raids and groups didn't use charm. I only ever saw charm used on rydda dar and RZTWL. From that it's clear that by that point everyone knew how powerful it was but didn't use it on every raid. Even though if you wanted to min/max you could farm most EP minis with two groups with a few enchanters.

I never saw a traditional group at tables with a tank and charm pet. Ever. It was always kite groups and enchanters could charm some crazy dps spiders.

[Buellen]

For what is worth

Equemulator code for charm.

CHARM
SE_Charm (22)
Charm when is cast initially a resist check is made which is effected by a charisma modifier.
Charm if successful has an innate chance to break every buff tick. (Unless flagged in unbreakable in spell table 'powerful_flag')
There is an approximately 25% chance to trigger a resist check each tick to determine if charm will fade.
Resist check for charm to fade is NOT effected by Charisma or Base1 value (unknown what that does).
There is a lower bounds of approximately 3% chance per tick of charm breaking no matter what. (If you have 0% chance to resist the spell due to Tash/Green con)
If resist check fails...
If player has a bonus from SE_CharmBreakChance (243) 'Total Domination AA' you have another chance for charm not to break based on the value,
Example: Total Domination Rank 3 is 50% chance for charm not to break if resist check fails.
Otherwise, charm will fade

[Tecmos Deception]

Omg. Your sig is the nilbog quote I was just looking for for a different thread! I woulda found it too except I searched for nilbog's posts containing "classic" and "players" not "classic" and "people."

[Buellen]

Lol

I found that quote a few years back and have used it ever since. Glad you can use it 8)

[Tecmos Deception]

Oh man, I remember seeing it ages ago and having referenced it a lot since, but I never had the post specifically to wave at people. Yay!

[Buellen]

@Rooj

Well said sir Well said. <salute>

[Tecmos Deception]

You guys like to say "there were good players back then, they'd have figured it out."

THEY DID. There just isn't fantastic evidence of it. And while there were some top notch players, there were a lot more shitty ones. Just like now (except even worse then because of the 20 fewer years of internet hardware, wikis, and MMO experience they had then, plus different overall priorities like "i think I'll go check out that ingame wedding in the temple of life instead of parsing my logs for average charm duration info at various charisma levels") So big surprise you read a lot more comments about how shitty enchanters didn't know wtf to do with charm than you do about good enchanters soloing like beasts.

[bwe]

That argument's not great because it's just as easy to go the other way. Provide evidence that the current state of charm is the same as it was on live.

[Tecmos Deception]

Originally Posted by bwe [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That argument's not great because it's just as easy to go the other way. Provide evidence that the current state of charm is the same as it was on live.

That's not how it works. To change something you prove it should be changed. Stuff is the way it is because the staff who have already spent years on this figured it out as best they could already. You don't get to upend that just because nobody can prove it is correct.


That aside, I submit xornns enchanter guide as supporting similar charm and mr here as in classic era.

I mean, the guide is pretty damn similar to guides on p99 or to the play of good chanters on here. He calls charm the chanters strongest and most versatile tool. He praises root as cc, aoe mez as great. He only keeps 1 stun on his bar for charm breaks suggesting he doesn't get it resisted enough to consider a second one as a backup. He talks about charisma and the buff line being important for charms and mezzes. His solo exp charming is solid. He even talks about engaging multiple mobs with a charm and using them for more dps in groups.

That doesn't sound like a guy who can't rely on charm, who can't handle charm breaks, who gets a ton of resists on stuns and roots, etc. It sounds about like someone playing on p99.

He doesn't even address summoning mobs, kunark 51+ spells, etc. So he wasn't even out of classic spells and 1-50 zones but he was already comfortable using charm and the other spells people in here have called op on p99.

Imagine how much more he'd like charm if he hadn't disliked berserker strength line because the strength component fades (oh noes) when the rune is eaten up, or if he'd though of having the resistance debuff he mentions shams having put on his pets, or if he had a gcd clicky and 2 wands of allure, or if he had a modern computer and internet connection and the p99 wiki and dozens of streamers to watch for tips and tricks. Why gee, he'd probably have been managing charm like a pro while outdpsing whole groups and farming cash camps solo! Go figure.


The dudes roleplay-y intro to chanting even sounds like what I keep saying about why not many people figured out chanters before and why still not too many have it mastered now:

the enchanter gives the least room for error, the least understanding for mistakes, and the most expectations from your fellow adventurers.