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  #11  
Old 05-11-2020, 09:38 PM
pogs4ever pogs4ever is offline
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Feels closer classic to my 99 experience.
  #12  
Old 05-11-2020, 09:47 PM
sunbask sunbask is offline
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It'd be cool if they kept blue the same, but nerfed green.

Green is fresh so noone gets to take advantage of clicky power, and it starts fair.
  #13  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:04 PM
Croco Croco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pogs4ever [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Feels closer classic to my 99 experience.
Just because you didn't know it was happening in '99, '00, or '01 doesn't mean it wasn't. Your remembered experience is anecdotal.
  #14  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:24 PM
Fammaden Fammaden is offline
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Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
Your remembered experience is anecdotal.
So is yours.

Different servers had different metas, how much clicky usage and how much recharging wasn't uniform across all servers, but the overall knowledge and frequency of use as raid tools did not match P99's...hence the changes. The staff is open to evidence, you have some links showing discussion that proves widespread spamming of midnight mallets for snap warrior aggro, then submit it and get things reverted.
  #15  
Old 05-11-2020, 10:33 PM
magnetaress magnetaress is offline
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We'd be better off in a highly disciplined and well ordered society that did not require a piece of paper to help the power elites to wipe thier own assets with.
  #16  
Old 05-11-2020, 11:05 PM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
False equivalency much? This is more like taking current amendments and rewriting them because reasons.

With every change like this we stray further and further from the supposed classic goal of the project. Nothing about this is classic. Recharging is classic, clickies are classic. They might not have been ubiquitous but that's completely irrelevant. This is the staff deciding retroactively to make a 100% non-classic change for no reason in particular.
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/his...es-2001-1.html

Quote:
- The spell, Mark of Karn, has been enhanced to heal more per hit.
- The effect on the Celestial Elixir Breastplates has been changed to
the enhanced Mark of Karn. The casting time on these items has also
been changed to 9 seconds
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4952

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Had to say it.
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#Feb 26 2001 at 6:30 PMRating: Decent
Anonymous
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They nerfed the CH from Donnal's Breastplate and now come up with this new bad boy of a BP(Kael quests beats the shizznit off of planar armor. No one else finds that... wrong?).

Expect this 'plate to get nerfed, expect people to complain loudly, expect Verant to never learn.
The item was used by players, and then deemed too powerful. So you really want to argue that rechargeable clickies weren't of equal or greater power and, if they were/are, that the original developers wouldn't have nerfed them for the same reasons? Even original players like the one above knew the mindset of the devs, at least enough to anticipate nerfs before each patch day.

Patches. Amendments.
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  #17  
Old 05-12-2020, 01:06 AM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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From the same link...

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RE: Had to say it.
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#Apr 11 2001 at 1:34 PMRating: Decent
Anonymous
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Personally, I understand perfectly why the Donal's BP was nerfed. My beef with Verant is not about that specifically. I just think they're stupid for releasing all these Cleric BP's without putting much thought into what can be done with them. C'mon...a BP that clickies for CH?!?! You can't tell me you thought they'd let that stay in...
What Verant REALLY needs to do is put some DEEP thought into what they do to keep the classes balanced. They keep putting things in that make one class too powerful solo, or too powerful in a particular situation (Like the Cleric and Tank taking out that turtle).
I am not upset with them for nerfing our armor, I am upset with them for ALLOWING it in the game to begin with when any reasonably intelligent person can see that it will eventually HAVE TO BE nerfed.

Just my 2cp there...

Jarochai Alabaster
30th Cleric of Underfoot
Proud member of Exile
Brell Server
...which isn't a roundabout way of also bashing staff here. Players, like the one above, failed to appreciate everything else the devs were working on. That you are echoing a very similar complaint those players made just adds to the classic experience of these forums. It's hard to know how certain things will play out in a game, especially if that game is the first of its kind. The test server helped, as did Project1999 Blue, but there are still kinks to work out as is the case with most everything man-made.
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Last edited by Ennewi; 05-12-2020 at 01:22 AM..
  #18  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:16 AM
Croco Croco is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fammaden [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
So is yours.

Different servers had different metas, how much clicky usage and how much recharging wasn't uniform across all servers, but the overall knowledge and frequency of use as raid tools did not match P99's...hence the changes. The staff is open to evidence, you have some links showing discussion that proves widespread spamming of midnight mallets for snap warrior aggro, then submit it and get things reverted.
I'm not talking about my remembered experience. I'm talking about documented fact. Like I said just because it wasn't ubiquitous across all servers and all guilds is completely irrelevant. Top guilds used these strats back in the day and it's documented. The burden of proof isn't on p99 players, the evidence already exists. Obviously player behavior is going to be different on p99 than it was back in the day. We literally have all the information. You can't put toothpaste back in the tube.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
https://everquest.allakhazam.com/his...es-2001-1.html



https://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?item=4952



The item was used by players, and then deemed too powerful. So you really want to argue that rechargeable clickies weren't of equal or greater power and, if they were/are, that the original developers wouldn't have nerfed them for the same reasons? Even original players like the one above knew the mindset of the devs, at least enough to anticipate nerfs before each patch day.

Patches. Amendments.
If your intention was to make me waste time looking through that huge patch list that doesn't have anything to do with clickies congrats you got me.

I'm not arguing that anything is or isn't of greater or lesser power I'm arguing that it literally doesn't matter. Our playbox is a server that is literally frozen in time. We know everything that was and wasn't happening at that time. It doesn't matter what the devs would or wouldn't have done if they'd had the chance or had more time to gauge what players were doing. All of that is completely irrelevant.

There is no guess work. No wondering how things will play out. We are literally time locked. Things are either classic, meaning they happened and were able to happen at that time, or they aren't. This isn't like how different supreme court justices interpret the constitution. There is no interpretation needed. Everything is known. All the knowledge exists. So changing something so that it works differently than it did during the classic era is by definition not classic.
  #19  
Old 05-12-2020, 04:56 AM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
If your intention was to make me waste time looking through that huge patch list that doesn't have anything to do with clickies congrats you got me.

I'm not arguing that anything is or isn't of greater or lesser power I'm arguing that it literally doesn't matter. Our playbox is a server that is literally frozen in time. We know everything that was and wasn't happening at that time. It doesn't matter what the devs would or wouldn't have done if they'd had the chance or had more time to gauge what players were doing. All of that is completely irrelevant.

There is no guess work. No wondering how things will play out. We are literally time locked. Things are either classic, meaning they happened and were able to happen at that time, or they aren't. This isn't like how different supreme court justices interpret the constitution. There is no interpretation needed. Everything is known. All the knowledge exists. So changing something so that it works differently than it did during the classic era is by definition not classic.
Than make your own time capsule server? But then you would have to include each and every single bug, otherwise it could be considered "selectively classic" as well. The bug that caused players zoning into Mistmoore to be pushed back out into Lfay until the previous player who zoned in before them moved. The bug that caused coin to be destroyed when players accidentally clicked the amount onto the banker instead of into the bank slot. The bug that removed "auto-aim" from archery.

Most here are willing to accept a gray area that has the right feel, one they remember EverQuest gave. If you want black and white, absolute classic, good luck recreating that because the original developers were constantly making changes, even some that went without mention in the patch notes, and for good reason.

https://web.archive.org/web/20000511...ww.neriak.com/

Quote:
New Patch for 6-6-00 Explained by the EQ team [News] ·· 06-06-2000 at 12:32 PM ··

Risk and Reward

The concept of risk and reward is very important to the game of EverQuest. Ideally, situations that provide a greater reward should also provide substantial risk. Over the past several weeks, we've been identifying areas in game where risk and reward are at a disparity, and making necessary adjustments.

In most cases, those adjustments are in favor of increasing the reward for a specific action. For example, we recently increased the experience awarded in many Kunark zones to offset the sometimes-considerable risk associated with adventuring there. We also do this quite frequently by increasing the reward associated with a quest by enhancing the item, as we did last week with the Burning Rapier quest.

However, in some cases there are instances where reward is far in excess of the risk involved, and we will be correcting these issues like those above as we come across them. For example, there are many cases where a solitary and stationary outdoor creature has a "fast spawn", yielding the reward of fast experience-gain without the commensurate risk.

Though it is not our policy to announce changes to individual NPCs, we did want to let you know that you will see risk/reward disparities corrected over the next several weeks.

- The EverQuest Team

- Kenamael
To you that might not matter, it might be completely irrelevant, but for others it is essential to what made the game fun/memorable and unlike countless other MMOs that followed it.
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Last edited by Ennewi; 05-12-2020 at 05:05 AM..
  #20  
Old 05-12-2020, 05:08 AM
Ennewi Ennewi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Croco [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
I'm not talking about my remembered experience. I'm talking about documented fact. Like I said just because it wasn't ubiquitous across all servers and all guilds is completely irrelevant. Top guilds used these strats back in the day and it's documented. The burden of proof isn't on p99 players, the evidence already exists. Obviously player behavior is going to be different on p99 than it was back in the day. We literally have all the information. You can't put toothpaste back in the tube.
https://www.instructables.com/id/How...k-in-the-Tube/
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