Best three man group? With some Criteria.

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by Hueborn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm going to be playing with my dad and cousin in a three man group. I have played EQ on and off for sometime. My dad isn't a twitch player.

-I want a group that can get the most done with only three people.

-Also, the group must be sensitive to the fact that one of the players is my dad.

-So some crazy charm kiting, bard bellowing, quad kiting group probably wouldn't be ideal.

Originally Posted by Tayy [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monk, shaman, enchanter

Enchanter for extra buffs, CC and charm pet will bring the dps you need. Chanter and shaman can also do pretty much any camp in the game.

I see Shaman/Monk/Shadowknight/Cle/Enc/War/Rog in those choices, so I'll start from there.

As far as clericing goes, for a 3man team, you don't really -need- a cleric. Especially if you're not doing those crazy charm strats. Really, even if you are doing crazy charm strats, you might appreciate the malosini debuff+heal more than extra HP from a cleric+Healing.

A shaman would be a great support for a +2melee trio, or +enc+melee trio (even without charm).

As far as melee choices go, In a trio, you probably don't -need- a warrior tank unless you already have someone who wants to play warrior.

Assuming one person is a healer, you're left 2 options for your melee.

A Monk/Rogue combo would be a super strong choice, not as tankly as War/Knights, but you need someone who is capable of pulling without bringing the whole room every time. You could substitute an enchanter for one of your melee, and use a non-monk melee puller, as an alternative, and just mez adds.

This all depends on your groups twitch skill.

It's much easier for a monk(/+rogue) combo to slowly work through rooms with FD and sneak throws, than it is to be ready to bomb mez on time on pull every big pull.

The sham/monk/sk combo is pretty good, two FDs and snare make pulling a snap, They're gonna be a little light on the dps, and the SK has to med to use spells, without an ENC that presents problems in the long term. You could adjust that composition to SK/Enc/Sham, but then lack of DPS is a real problem unless the enc charm DPS's consistently.

Imho, combine your first two ideas of rog/war/sham and mnk/shd/sham and go for monk/rog/sham.
Easy enough pulls, dps for days, all the buffs you need. Monk+Rogue can stop dangerous casters in their tracks with their insane push.

Shaman has to be willing to press that canni button before hitting 100% HP and able to buff the group.
Rogue needs to keep backstab on cooldown.
Monk needs to be able to pull without wrecking himself.

If you think your team is skilled enough for that then you got yourself a real winner of a combo there.

As far as aggro concerns / root parking for aggro, once the rogue has evade, the monk should have no problem keeping aggro. Really a monk with any proc weapon should have little to no problems out-aggroing a similar gear level rogue.

As far as race choices, Definitely would recommend the monk goes iksar, shaman should go troll/iksar for regen as well. That may make it harder to meet up, but it's going to be a large impact in the long run having the tank+canni-hp-to-mana-healer permanent bonus regenning.

I'd also almost be willing to bet real money, that if you needed help getting your group gathered up so you can grind together, there would be no shortage of people willing to help get your crew ported to the same spot.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Hueborn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Okay. Pretty sure I'm going with MNK/SHM. It's just that third spot.

I'm not too worried about snap agro. With good MNK pulls, SHM root parking, and AE slows in higher more hectic places.

I'm thinking another MNK or a WAR might be good?

With a MNK two Mends popping can help heals, FD to share agro/dmg well between them.

With a WAR's higher AC the DMG taken would be less, but DPS would drop.

Not sure what's better.

You'll be tanking slowed 1group-or-less difficulty mobs, The ac benefit of the warrior would probably be outweighed by any good DPS option in such a small group situation.

Mob dies faster, less damage to heal.

A second monk isn't bad, but a little redundant. With a rogue you get access to some of the harder-to-adventure-in areas with lockpicking, as well as being a superior DPS outputter next to monks. They can also corpse recovery out of the shittiest of places, nude, while half asleep, with sneak/hide.

If you're trying to squeeze extra heals out of the combo, Rogues aren't bad backup brigade healers with monks. Both are pure melee classes, and as such, can skill bind wound past 200 and are able to BW to 70%hp when they do. Two pure melees bind wounding a canni shaman will quickly push up the manabar.

Having a Monk/Rogue instead of Monk/Monk also lets you bring in some different proc weapons for situations where they're needed. Fighting lots of green trash? Rogue can put on a slow proc dagger and let the sham focus on something else. Runners a problem? Rogue tosses on a snare dagger. Monks get some awesome useful procs too like Tstaff, but that's pretty top-end and possibly not relevant to you guys for a long time.

[aubie]

Question. Just for the all around ease of grouping/leveling, why wouldn't a paladin, rogue, druid group be the best? I know it probably wouldn't be the most efficient/powerful group, but as far as just grouping, leveling, traveling and enjoying play, it seems pretty good.

Pally can hold aggro so rogue can DPS max, and druid can basically regen/heal/DS pally and snare mob while medding. Travel is easy with ports/SoW. Pally can heal well later with clicky and spells plus LOH for emergency and rez at some point. For casual fun, this would seem like the winner. Druid can invis, Pally can ITU, and rogue can CR if needed and lockpick. Seems like this group would allow you to cover the most content.

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by aubie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Question. Just for the all around ease of grouping/leveling, why wouldn't a paladin, rogue, druid group be the best? I know it probably wouldn't be the most efficient/powerful group, but as far as just grouping, leveling, traveling and enjoying play, it seems pretty good.

Pally can hold aggro so rogue can DPS max, and druid can basically regen/heal/DS pally and snare mob while medding. Travel is easy with ports/SoW. Pally can heal well later with clicky and spells plus LOH for emergency and rez at some point. For casual fun, this would seem like the winner. Druid can invis, Pally can ITU, and rogue can CR if needed and lockpick. Seems like this group would allow you to cover the most content.

The problem with dru/pal/rogue is -
No slows, no haste, no crack (until druid is 60 at least..) no melee buffs outside of druid STR.

The regen is nice sure but with two mana classes (dru/pal) you would probably do better with some form of mana regen and/or DPS such as enc/bard (which also provide haste/slow) over an unhasted nearly unbuffed rogue.

So, yes, a druid/paladin/rogue would..work..why are you crippling the group composition?

Do you want ports that badly? You may as well go for shamtank+rogue+druid so you can at least get some slows/haste, or a caster trio of druid/cle/enc or dru/nec/enc or something, if you want the freedom of free ports..Otherwise you could always just pay for a port.

[aubie]

Originally Posted by Darkatar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem with dru/pal/rogue is -
No slows, no haste, no crack (until druid is 60 at least..) no melee buffs outside of druid STR.

The regen is nice sure but with two mana classes (dru/pal) you would probably do better with some form of mana regen and/or DPS such as enc/bard (which also provide haste/slow) over an unhasted nearly unbuffed rogue.

So, yes, a druid/paladin/rogue would..work..why are you crippling the group composition?

Do you want ports that badly? You may as well go for shamtank+rogue+druid so you can at least get some slows/haste, or a caster trio of druid/cle/enc or dru/nec/enc or something, if you want the freedom of free ports..Otherwise you could always just pay for a port.

I'd agree on all your points. I guess I was going for the ultimate casual, laid back group, that could consume the most content without relying on external help.

No slow I know, but that's counter productive to the druid damage shield.
No haste I know, but rogue has easy epic, which has a haste click, and other melee haste items are fairly easy to obtain by either camping or EC tunnel for both melees.
No mana regen I know, but druid should be medding most of the fight after ensnare, and pally should be able to sustain flash of light/stun for minimal mana. I'm sure pulling will be slower without mana regen, but again looking at lazy/casual group.

Pulls with pally lull/druid harmony should be singles, and the instant access to SoW and ports/evacs, lockpicks, ITU, and invis allows the group to travel anywhere anytime with no external resources to worry about. Just seemed like a good simple group that can enjoy and access a ton of content without worry of external help.

Obviously, not the most powerful or efficient group.

[Darkatar]

Originally Posted by aubie [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'd agree on all your points. I guess I was going for the ultimate casual, laid back group, that could consume the most content without relying on external help.

No slow I know, but that's counter productive to the druid damage shield.
No haste I know, but rogue has easy epic, which has a haste click, and other melee haste items are fairly easy to obtain by either camping or EC tunnel for both melees.
No mana regen I know, but druid should be medding most of the fight after ensnare, and pally should be able to sustain flash of light/stun for minimal mana. I'm sure pulling will be slower without mana regen, but again looking at lazy/casual group.

Pulls with pally lull/druid harmony should be singles, and the instant access to SoW and ports/evacs, lockpicks, ITU, and invis allows the group to travel anywhere anytime with no external resources to worry about. Just seemed like a good simple group that can enjoy and access a ton of content without worry of external help.

Obviously, not the most powerful or efficient group.

The slow/damage shield argument is heavily offset by the amount of mana you'd save not having to heal 50%-75% extra damage taken by having no slow. (and the 50-70% extra DPS from the melees from having haste would help massively)

The rogue worn epic is not a click, it's worn. The only haste click a rogue gets (afaik) is a 20% eyepatch, which takes a lodi+stormfeather kill/MQ and probably not something you're going to obtain early or possibly ever without paying for the MQ//actively raiding.

Ensnare and flash of light are super light mana spells, for sure, but if you plan on chain killing you need crack, haste, slow or some combination of the 3, or you will have extended downtimes, guaranteed. In the later game, you may only be able to kill 2-3 mobs before having two uncracked mana classes OOM and needing to med up a full mana bar, meanwhile your rogue is ready to go and nothing to do.

Lull pulls, especially from a paladin, are not reliable. at all. At least not here, and not without a dedicated charisma set. Extra dangerous compared to an enc because you have no mez/memblur/FD.

Harmony is outdoor only, otherwise yes it's freaking great.

Sow can be replaced with Jboots, everyone should get these eventually, and sow potions are relatively cheap as well. IVU and Invis are helpful, but many 50+ mobs are going to see through invis/ivu anyway.

You can get a port almost anytime with a /who all dial or /who all druid/wiz and a couple tells, and a small coin persuasion.

Now I'm not saying any of the involved classes aren't good choices, they're all good choices, they just don't mesh very well as a team.

I understand you want to play more casually, I definitely understand where you're coming from, it is a GAME, not a JOB, but, you can make it much less like a job and more laidback gaming by having a more effective combo, giving you a very large "fuckup buffer" letting you handle sillier situations and being able to take breaks whenever you feel like it because you're clearing mobs like a well oiled machine already. You could be effective enough to hold down your killing area with two people letting a third afk whenever needed, etc.

[Spyder73]

I have done a few trios in KC recently with Necromancer/Shaman/Monk and it has been quite exceptional. Lots of synergy in this grouping.

[Troxx]

My ideal trio? Sham monk necromancer.

Monk: pulls, tanking, dps, fd
Shaman: heals, slows, buffs, support, cc
Necro: dps, stupid levels of synergy with shaman, cc, heals, rez, fd, charm (situational)

Amazingly efficient and effective group that keeps getting stronger the higher up you get. With shaman at 60 necro heal stacks with torpor for an incredible 425/tick in heals over time per tick that's cheap and 100% sustainable. Working together each class brings a lot of killing power and group survivability to the table. If you need to add more people, you have a ton of options available with very few stacking issues.

[Issar]

Originally Posted by Troxx [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

My ideal trio? Sham monk necromancer.

Monk: pulls, tanking, dps, fd
Shaman: heals, slows, buffs, support, cc
Necro: dps, stupid levels of synergy with shaman, cc, heals, rez, fd, charm (situational)

Amazingly efficient and effective group that keeps getting stronger the higher up you get. With shaman at 60 necro heal stacks with torpor for an incredible 425/tick in heals over time per tick that's cheap and 100% sustainable. Working together each class brings a lot of killing power and group survivability to the table. If you need to add more people, you have a ton of options available with very few stacking issues.

This is my favorite trio in a non-enchanter setting. A while back I was in a trio of necro and monk with my bard. That was solid combination as well, but I think a shaman is superior to a bard in this group still.

[Spyder73]

Originally Posted by Issar [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is my favorite trio in a non-enchanter setting. A while back I was in a trio of necro and monk with my bard. That was solid combination as well, but I think a shaman is superior to a bard in this group still.

Yea I can see Bard being pretty good in this group - I feel like Bard power actually decreases as they level unfortunately. The 'jack of all trades' becomes less of a focal point and the 'master of none' becomes a lot more prevalent. Chances are a casual trio will not be reaching 60 anytime soon (or ever) so I'm not sure it matters...Top end the shaman would be more useful for sure, but pre 55 I think the Bard might have the edge. Relying on someone to constantly twist and play Bard well is cruel and unusual punishment though.

[Tingowingo]

Monk, enchanter, and shaman/cleric