A Question about the end of Class R Rotation

[arsenalpow]

The population of this server can't be trusted in a no variance environment. Just look at the noble cycle or the raid scene before variance was implemented. I wouldn't hate reduced variance but some variance is necessary to keep people honest.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The population of this server can't be trusted in a no variance environment. Just look at the noble cycle or the raid scene before variance was implemented. I wouldn't hate reduced variance but some variance is necessary to keep people honest.

This is already handled by the no FTE with trackers situation. Noble and the raid scene before did not have that rule in place. Keep it a mage battle or if that's a problem change it to no FTE with someone in zone when mob spawns. Don't really care which.

I'm fine with 15-30min variance for a little element of randomness but would prefer the classic 0 variance.

And yes slow day. I was under the impression I was going to be heading 5 hours south to do some field reviews but apparently that has been postponed and no one told me.

[Alpacalips]

Honest question, When the new C/R system was put in place one of the main reasons was so that smaller guilds could gear up, and gain raiding experience so they would eventually be able to compete with the larger guilds.

Has any Class R guild realistically worked to improve themselves in a chance to compete with Class C?

As an outsider it appears to me that none of the guilds in Class R are working to improve, and simply want to abuse the system put in place by the GM's, to maximize their pixel intake without actually having to put any significant effort in to do so.

[Argh]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Really the crux of the issue in my eyes is guilds allying frequently when they are unable to kill the mob. More over the guilds assisting don't get dropped down from their slot in the rotation. I think most people outside of the system believe it is logical that when two entities (let's say 1st slot and 3rd slot) kill a mob, both should drop down after participating. They had their chance to participate and get loot off the mob, you killed it, now you drop to the bottom. OR remove allying completely and if your guild is frequently requiring an ally to kill certain mobs or at certain times, come together and decide to occupy a single slot in the rotation as two different guilds.

A proposal centered around getting rid of alliances completely probably would have passed had they not tried to tie it to a tier system that demanded guilds solo kill Gore to be allowed to solo kill vs, ct, and trak. Under that proposal if a guild sharing a rotation slot with another guild on Gore (for instance Omni/Indignation/A-Team share a Gore slot) they would be tied to those guilds on VS CT and Trak as well, even though those three mobs are considerably easier than Gore (I don't think there has ever been an instance of a guild not solo killing VS, and I doubt there's ever been more than two instances for CT).

In the Teir system they proposed months ago when GT and MC were attempting to enter the rotation Gore was the last mob to get access for and there was mostly a consensus on the structure of that system.

[Culkasi]

@Daldaen

Very good objective post - thank you

[Argh]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The population of this server can't be trusted in a no variance environment. Just look at the noble cycle or the raid scene before variance was implemented. I wouldn't hate reduced variance but some variance is necessary to keep people honest.

Every mob wouldn't turn into the noble cycle because there are still rules governing Trackers for actual raid mobs.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every mob wouldn't turn into the noble cycle because there are still rules governing Trackers for actual raid mobs.

Moving the sock from on the spawn point to the zoneline or one zone away doesn't mean it's suddenly a healthy raid environment. People will still sock. They're doing so right now with 16 hours of variance. Removing variance entirely just makes socking more convenient. How is that possibly a fix??

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by Argh [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A proposal centered around getting rid of alliances completely probably would have passed had they not tried to tie it to a tier system that demanded guilds solo kill Gore to be allowed to solo kill vs, ct, and trak. Under that proposal if a guild sharing a rotation slot with another guild on Gore (for instance Omni/Indignation/A-Team share a Gore slot) they would be tied to those guilds on VS CT and Trak as well, even though those three mobs are considerably easier than Gore (I don't think there has ever been an instance of a guild not solo killing VS, and I doubt there's ever been more than two instances for CT).

In the Teir system they proposed months ago when GT and MC were attempting to enter the rotation Gore was the last mob to get access for and there was mostly a consensus on that point.

I won't defend the tiering system. It's dumb and clearly a grab attempt at getting more pixels. Requiring VS be rotated with the same rotation as Gore is dumb.

But I do thing that there is a shread of truth to the reason that there are two rotation slots on Gore with three guilds is because his loot is so terrible. If Gore dropped better gear (or epic pieces beyond a bard scale / pally book) you would see more 2-guild rotation slots or maybe some single slots. Cause I'm sure some of those guilds can solo kill an R Gore, or atleast two of them can handily. But they have no qualms sharing a rotation slot because splitting two McVaxius Horns isn't a big deal. If Trakanon's loot was worse you'd see more guilds sharing rotation slots on him. For example. But because he has several BIS BPs (including Donals) and Trak Guts, as well as Trak Teeth you can sell the MQs to and fund months of port stones/recharges -- guilds will occupy single rotation slots even though during a solid chunk of the day there is no way they can kill him by themselves.

So the pixel lust does go both ways IMO.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by Daldaen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I won't defend the tiering system. It's dumb and clearly a grab attempt at getting more pixels. Requiring VS be rotated with the same rotation as Gore is dumb.

But I do thing that there is a shread of truth to the reason that there are two rotation slots on Gore with three guilds is because his loot is so terrible. If Gore dropped better gear (or epic pieces beyond a bard scale / pally book) you would see more 2-guild rotation slots or maybe some single slots. Cause I'm sure some of those guilds can solo kill an R Gore, or atleast two of them can handily. But they have no qualms sharing a rotation slot because splitting two McVaxius Horns isn't a big deal. If Trakanon's loot was worse you'd see more guilds sharing rotation slots on him. For example. But because he has several BIS BPs (including Donals) and Trak Guts, as well as Trak Teeth you can sell the MQs to and fund months of port stones/recharges -- guilds will occupy single rotation slots even though during a solid chunk of the day there is no way they can kill him by themselves.

So the pixel lust does go both ways IMO.

For the record the tier system was Sirken's addition.

[Daldaen]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Moving the sock from on the spawn point to the zoneline or one zone away doesn't mean it's suddenly a healthy raid environment. People will still sock. They're doing so right now with 16 hours of variance. Removing variance entirely just makes socking more convenient. How is that possibly a fix??

Because it means guilds that want to compete on mobs can do so in the timespan of a Simpsons episode and then go on about their day. Allowing people with lives to partake if they know when the spawn is due.

Also it allows smaller (or any guilds but it specifically helps them) guilds to put out a notice that at time X the mob will spawn, be buffed and camped out beforehand. Players with only a single character can plan to arrive before and not lock their main character in limbo for 16-hours just so that they may have a shot at participating in a kill.

Chest - Please don't go full retard and claim Variance is a good idea. Or that it's removal wouldn't net some benefits, and those benefits outweigh the costs.