Feign death sk vs monk

[Taminy]

Generally monk feign is a lot better - and it does synergize well with sneak as others have said.

SKs do have a few useful tricks as well though, in particular snaring mobs then feigning and circlet of shadows. Sometimes a monk puller with SK tagger can work quite well in this regard.

[Danth]

Originally Posted by Messianic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

No, there is a re-use timer on the ability.

Originally Posted by Kreylyn [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Monk FD reuse timer is 10 seconds.

Thanks for the correction guys. As noted previous, I don't have a Monk, and for some reason I've always thought they could re-feign almost immediately. I'll edit my earlier post so as to remove bad info.

Oh, while not mentioned as yet, it should be noted that as a spell, Shadow Knight feign requires mana. While not usually an issue, this can create problems for the SK in rare situations (ie, having to repeatedly feign for some reason when you're already low on mana). A Monk never has that concern, giving them another ease-of-use advantage.

Danth

[webrunner5]

Originally Posted by Master Roshi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Also, come velious, SK FD gets a major upgrade with Death Peace. 1 sec cast with a 4 (i think?) sec re-use, which makes FDing a whole not easier.

Also, being an ogre, I love not getting stunned when I'm trying to FD [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well said. Ogre is really over the top if you really want to be a great SK puller. Not counting the toe to toe stuff that will happen in long fights in Velious. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Danth]

Yanno, in years of playing my Shadow Knight (Human), including plenty of times I had to feign with 3-6 things attacking me, I can't recall ever having died to a feign interrupt when being an Ogre would have saved me*. It probably happens to folks now and then, but must be extremely rare. I figure the real advantage of being an Ogre is the peace of mind it gives those folks who feel it's the best choice--while often glossed over, having self-confidence is more important than any stat.

*Note that with 3+ things attacking you, many, probably most, feign fails will be caused by something being in mid-swing when you feign--which Ogres are just as vulnerable to as anyone else. This gives Monks another advantage since they can feign while running.

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It's also worth mentioning that Feign Death is probably one of the most powerful abilities in the game, and having a somewhat watered-down feign is still a huge advantage over anyone who can't do that. My Paladin has a huge instant self-heal, my SK doesn't, yet my Paladin dies several times as often as the SK even while sticking to safer jobs.

Danth

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Thanks for the correction guys. As noted previous, I don't have a Monk, and for some reason I've always thought they could re-feign almost immediately. I'll edit my earlier post so as to remove bad info.

Oh, while not mentioned as yet, it should be noted that as a spell, Shadow Knight feign requires mana. While not usually an issue, this can create problems for the SK in rare situations (ie, having to repeatedly feign for some reason when you're already low on mana). A Monk never has that concern, giving them another ease-of-use advantage.

Danth

Np [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You definitely have witnessed a monk get up and immediately re-feign, tho. That's because the re-use timer starts on use of the ability, not when you get up. I think the same is true for necros/SKs.

Side note: one of the little learned principles of feigning is never to get right back up after a feign unless you're 100% sure (like, 100%. Not 90%. Not 80%.) you have no aggro. You don't want to be caught during the re-use timer with a bunch of 50+ mobs beating you to death.

[fastboy21]

I think you could construct a scenario where one would be better than the other in those specific situations...

for most folks, however, they really mean three things when they are talking about FDing: solo, grp and raid.

solo:

monks can FD travel through zones using sneak with relative safety if they have the skill to do it (i forget the link but someone recently posted a video on youtube of a monk flopping and sneaking his way through much of NToV to get into the pom---I don't think an SK could have done it nearly as easily). solo fighting sometimes you have to hit FD if you are going to lose or get aggro from someone's train, for this SK and monk are prob equal.

Group:

As puller for a group monk and SK can both get the job done about the same, depending on the specific situation there might be one place that one is better than the other. Generally speaking, between monk fd/sneak and SK fd/CoS they can split most exp camps if they know what they are doing. Once split, its really more about the attentiveness of the puller than their FD skills.

The thing isn't so much about who will be the puller, but who will be the tank. In most grps with an SK and a monk, it is going to make better sense for the monk to go out and pull and the SK to stay in (and med) and tank. Monk can DPS between pulls. Its a solid setup. It would be a lot of work for the SK to tank and pull in an exp grp and he would eventually go OOM if he couldn't med between kills.

As DPS manager tool monk can FD and pop back up without missing a single round, if needed. SK really can't do this nearly as smoothly, but why would they need to in most situations when they are the tank?

Raids:

Depending on the particular raid zone and mobs being split either could get the job done. On big pulling raids there is usually a team of pullers working together, not a single splitter. I usually send monks to the front and let the SKs do the last leg of the pull.

But, it really depends on player skill. Pulling in EQ with FD can be very quarky and the best folks aren't the best because they are monk or SK...they tend to know the tricks of the zone and pathing very well.

[Messianic]

Originally Posted by fastboy21 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you could construct a scenario where one would be better than the other in those specific situations...

for most folks, however, they really mean three things when they are talking about FDing: solo, grp and raid.

solo:

monks can FD travel through zones using sneak with relative safety if they have the skill to do it (i forget the link but someone recently posted a video on youtube of a monk flopping and sneaking his way through much of NToV to get into the pom---I don't think an SK could have done it nearly as easily). solo fighting sometimes you have to hit FD if you are going to lose or get aggro from someone's train, for this SK and monk are prob equal.

They're probably equal for most cases, but monk is a lot faster in See invis scenarios. I really didn't have any limits unless I was going through areas where there were a LOT of casters, and even then crafty use of LoS usually kept me alive.

I would frequently flop through entire high end dungeons just for the fun of it. That's how I learned my way around - was a lot better to already know the zone extremely well and possibly die in the process than have to learn that in a group/raid.

Plus I spent a lot of time LFG back in those 2k+ population days...

[Nuktari]

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I'm a shadowknight, and I pretty much use FD like a panic button.

Face pull the entire room or bust.

But I think monk FD is better, cast Vs instant is no competition. Instant always wins. Tie in sneak, it's a sure winner. Monk4Pullz, SK4LuLz

[webrunner5]

FD, in this game, right now, is not as easy as people are saying on here to get rid of Agro. A lot of times the puller or Warrior tank has to zone to get rid of it at times. So not really a big advantage either class to pull. Iksar Monk has the edge if FD because of re gen high level, and Mend. But SK also has edge because of the AC and HP advantage he has. So I say it is sort of a wash.

There are a lot of pullers on this server, but as you all know not many of them are great. You really have to know the zones well to pull, and the mobs habits agro wise, pathing wise etc., to be damn good. And not a lot of people are good at all 3 or more aspects.

It is not a easy job to do it in the higher level zones. But then NO class on here is easy to play well in high level zones. I can count on 2 hands the great players I have grouped with in the last several months. And it is a pleasure to group with them if you can. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I think too many people on here play too many alts to get really good at one like most of us did when EQ first came out. "Practice makes perfect" is no bullcrap.

[Bodybagger]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

FD, in this game, right now, is not as easy as people are saying on here to get rid of Agro. A lot of times the puller or Warrior tank has to zone to get rid of it at times. So not really a big advantage either class to pull. Iksar Monk has the edge if FD because of re gen high level, and Mend. But SK also has edge because of the AC and HP advantage he has. So I say it is sort of a wash.

There are a lot of pullers on this server, but as you all know not many of them are great. You really have to know the zones well to pull, and the mobs habits agro wise, pathing wise etc., to be damn good. And not a lot of people are good at all 3 or more aspects.

It is not a easy job to do it in the higher level zones. But then NO class on here is easy to play well in high level zones. I can count on 2 hands the great players I have grouped with in the last several months. And it is a pleasure to group with them if you can. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] I think too many people on here play too many alts to get really good at one like most of us did when EQ first came out. "Practice makes perfect" is no bullcrap.

Troll SK has same regen as iksar monk, just sayin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]