Rogue Partner

[webrunner5]

Running around chasing a feared Darkness mob is about as much fun as a sharp stick in the eye. And even a Snared one gets old pretty quick. It is not much fun I can tell you.

Playing a Rogue well is really not as easy as a lot of people think. A lot of Tanks on here make NO effort to position a mob where it ought to be. Either for the Rogue or Casters. But that will change in Velious because the fights will last a LOT longer, and Tanks not worth crap will not be Tanks getting groups. Velious is where you have the old pen and paper ready for the Shit List names. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Wenuven]

Originally Posted by Estu [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno, I'm skeptical. Charmed pet DPS is huge.

I dunno, I got most of my levels on my rogue via duo. I duod a LOT with both necros and druids. I'm not saying necros are a bad choice--just that druid was the clear winner in my experience.

But assuming you're right and the charming is worth the tradeoffs, lets not forget that when it comes to outdoor zones, there are probably more options with animals (for druid charm) than there are with undead.

The choice is partially correlated to how well-geared the rogue is. The worse gear the rogue has, the more the extra DPS from necro pet or charmed pet will skew the results. But in the end, the druid will still win due to the time-saving utility of SoW and ports. Easy choice IMO. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Wenuven [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I dunno, I got most of my levels on my rogue via duo. I duod a LOT with both necros and druids. I'm not saying necros are a bad choice--just that druid was the clear winner in my experience.

But assuming you're right and the charming is worth the tradeoffs, lets not forget that when it comes to outdoor zones, there are probably more options with animals (for druid charm) than there are with undead.

The choice is partially correlated to how well-geared the rogue is. The worse gear the rogue has, the more the extra DPS from necro pet or charmed pet will skew the results. But in the end, the druid will still win due to the time-saving utility of SoW and ports. Easy choice IMO. [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't want to have a nitpicky argument here, since it's kind of a minor question and probably is not going to change anything, but I really don't buy that a druid would be a better duo partner. SoW and ports are vastly overrated; you can easily find ports on this server with variations on "/who all", and you don't need SoW to kite a snared mob. In terms of outdoor zones, it's true that there are a decent number of animals to charm, but there are quite a lot of undead as well. However, I think that a rogue/necro duo could venture into a dungeon and fear kite effectively - certain open, relatively sparse areas could be cleared out mainly by the necro root-dotting stuff, and then used as arenas for fear-kiting. Then you could soak up that ZEM.

A big factor is that necros are better at fearing. Druids can only fear animals; necros can fear anything. If you're in a druid-rogue duo and the druid isn't fearing the target, that means the druid is aggro kiting with snare, which means he's less free to med and hence contribute his own DPS. The necro can lay down a snare and a fear, med, and add additional DPS as mana permits... not to mention, his mana regeneration is far superior due to lich form. So even without a charmed pet, the necro is going to be contributing a lot more DPS through damaging spells. Meanwhile, without a charmed pet, the druid is going to be contributing very little DPS; the necro at least has his little skeleton dude.

I don't really see any way in which a druid-rogue duo would beat out a druid-necro duo. The necro is just a more powerful class in almost every way than the druid.

[Alukit Vassago]

druid + rog combo is very nice

[Bodybagger]

Rogue+rogue is a ton of fun, agro swapping trading backstabs, great way to melee grind duo, and bind wounding yourselves always to 50% gives you essentially full hp of one rogue with dmg of 2 full time backstabbing (max dps mode!)

Also can hide and sneak together.

Very fun and authentic way to play rogues, not gimpy chasing feared mobs and crap.
Backstab to the face for extra threat, turn off attack and hide to drop threat, very very manageable duo for killing singles and not bad for splitting doubles, more than that gets bad without cc though of course.

Only down side is competing for gear perhaps but most gear is bought so really it's just farming cash together and buying what you want, drop competition won't be an issue for anything that matters for LONG time.

That's probably my favorite of all the ways I've leveled a rogue, though duo with many others can be quite fun. Monk can also duo this swapping agro easily but not as effective to manage as rogue-rogue on single target threat swapping because FD is much more effective, however monk can split pulls and get fights down to 2v1 for most everything, making it a more efficient pve combo probably. SK works similarly well with melee+FD+aggro gaining abilities. Anything you can swap back and forth to help mitigate is great fun, but rogue maximizes by trading backstab exposure on mobs on threat swaps, best part is when it harmonizes with two equal rogues and each backstab just auto swaps threat!!!

[Shaniril]

Pure Melee

Warrior: can soak the hits while the rogue murders things, recovery between fights will be slower though. Great combination for starting groups though.

Rogue: trade aggro for constant backstabbing! again, slower recovery.

Monk: same as the warrior, but stuff will die a little faster and you have mend.

Priests

Cleric: Who doesn't love awesome heals and a res? You'll go oom quick trying to keep your rogue buddy alive against stronger mobs though. Might be able to fear kite some with snare proc weapons.

Shaman: Same as above, but with less healing and more offensive options, buffs and SoW.

Druid: Ports, SoW, Heals, Damage Shield... low healing though. Could easily kite stuff around keeping aggro with snare and flamelick though while the rogue (and maybe a charmed animal) does the work.

Pure Casters:

Wizard: Ports, big nukes, AoE snare. Probably one of the worst duo options for a rogue though (lots of medding between fights, no heals etc)

Mage: Sadly, mobs will always attack players over pets unless root is involved... which just happens to be a spell mages don't learn. T.T

Necro: Strong solo class in their own right, plus they fear kite for days which is something a rogue makes a great addition to.

Enchanter: Takes more work than a necro but also very strong at solo'ing using charm tactics. Chain stuns can make backstab a breeze plus as a duo you're very desirable in groups.

Hybrids

Paladin: Can heal and hold aggro for days. Gets res at higher level and can ghetto-mez with roots. Fairly low damage output though.

Ranger: Higher damage output than the paladin with lower survivability. In terms of what they bring to a duo with a rogue... honestly about the same set of tools as above.

Shadowknight: Self-heals from procs and lifetaps, sacrificial heals for the rogue. Fear kiting starting at level 15. Can hold aggro like a champ. If you're thinking necro but would rather melee this is a good choice.

Bard: Does everything, but takes a while to get there. regen based healing? check. Haste? check. run speed? check. snares? check. charms/mez? check. fear kiting? yessir. Hold aggro like a champ for all the backstabbing? yep.

[Bodybagger]

both druid and necro are shitty combo's for a rogue, honestly. They take forever and you (the rogue)) barely add efficiency, and vice versa.

best bet is another melee and embrace downtime, so your downtime is together and efficient (binding) and let casters stick with casters they can med with *shrug*

twin rogues really is insanely good and underrated. I have blown peoples minds throughout my EQ career showing them how efficient this can be as a duo. It's just absurdly fun once you master the mechanics and get lvl 20+ to reliably control agro. with daggers proccing engulfing darkness you can also pretty reliable snare and fear kite with intimidation to further up efficiency.

[Tann]

bard = best

mana free fear/snare/buffs/regen/speed/mez/charm (till lv37+ merbs)/etc..

[Bodybagger]

chasing mobs sucks. Not fun as a rogue or any class nearly imo... can it work? yes... is it as fun for the rogue and the bard? not at all...

Less downtime than nec or dru though for sure (or any caster+rog combo..)

[Estu]

Originally Posted by Bodybagger [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

chasing mobs sucks. Not fun as a rogue or any class nearly imo... can it work? yes... is it as fun for the rogue and the bard? not at all...

Less downtime than nec or dru though for sure (or any caster+rog combo..)

Nec+rogue has zero downtime. Some people have problems with chasing mobs but I think it's fine.