Luclin

[myriverse]

Originally Posted by SCB [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Disagree 100%. I don't see what anyone thinks is special or unique about EQ classic's "art". All posts like this just read like nostalgic bullshit to me.

Even in 1999, it was something I tolerated against my will, because the rest of the game was top notch. Boxy edges and awkward poses. Eyuck. Of course, I'm from the Atari generation, so anything over that is sweet to me.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Borador [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

First, maybe I missed it in a previous post, but WORLD OF WARCRAFT!!!! 2004, right after GoD, it took a LOT of people from EQ. It also provided the first real competition to EQ from a game design standpoint. In an effort to fix EQ issues it created other issues. You then have this back and forth about what is good and what is bad. People like to look in game, but you also have to look at what is happening in the real world. Five years is a long time to do anything, let alone play a video game. Some people are just not wired to stick around, no matter what changes were or were not made. Graduation, wife, girlfriend, kids, job? EQ wasn't "best" at any certain time in game, it was best when I could play til 4am or skip classes to stay at home and level.

+1

I wish I have played WoW during Vanilla...

[t0lkien]

WoW during Beta was wonderful. Vanilla was good for a while.... and it was all downhill from there.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by t0lkien [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

WoW during Beta was wonderful. Vanilla was good for a while.... and it was all downhill from there.

well, imho, Vanilla was the time when it was a bit easier than EQ, but still with EQ spirit for grouping and raiding. It had it share of issue too. I believe that BC era was the Golden Age when they got things just right.
But then they started making leveling and raiding requirement just too easy, specially with CataPanda. The saddest part is that they improved gear that can be quested/obtained solo so much, that there is no point of doing any of the 20-60 dungeons, and that's what I wanted to experience the most.
I also didn't like then altering some of the classes, like when they simplified Hunter pets not to require feeding and upkeeping happiness.

If there would be a classical/BC WoW emu without the extra xp, instant levels, etc, I would gladly play it

[heartbrand]

What a lot of people who companion about wow and eq post velious seem to dislike is new content. It's like you want to never upgrade your gear you got from guk or leave the original zones and starting area. Sorry to tell you but MMO's can't survive without a steady influx of new content. People aren't going to be happy with the new content if it doesn't provide upgrades for their characters.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What a lot of people who companion about wow and eq post velious seem to dislike is new content. It's like you want to never upgrade your gear you got from guk or leave the original zones and starting area. Sorry to tell you but MMO's can't survive without a steady influx of new content. People aren't going to be happy with the new content if it doesn't provide upgrades for their characters.

I disagree. (well at least I feel this is not true for me).
I wholeheartedly welcome new content, since after all raids are done and all gear sets completed what else there to do?

The problem with new content in all MMO is that its done WRONG. Theme mismatching aside, balance and gear become out of whack NOT because they add better gear, but because they make better gear more easily obtainable than it was before.

Lets take this abstract example. Let suppose that you had a 10/22 weapon dropping from lev 50 content in original EQ. When In Kunark level goes up to 60, I can rightfully expect that a better weapon would drop from lev 55/60 content.
But what happens is that Kunark offers 10/22 at lev 45, and then 10/20 at lev 50, hence devaluing old hard earned gear.

It happened in EQ, less noticeable during Kunark/Velious era and A LOT more noticeably during Luclin/PoP/later eras. It happened in EQ2, WoW etc. Specially in WoW it happened in such ridiculous amount in Wrath+ era that solo gear from lev 50 in new expansion was better that hard dungeon group gear from lev 60 from previous expansion.

So, please do add new content, but don't ruin gear progression that has already formed, unless you want to turn entire old content into ghost-town like its happened in EQ, EQ2, WoW etc.

[Zuranthium]

You don't need new zones to have new content. What's IN the zones can change, drastically (even without sandboxing). This has a carry-over effect to equipment - if zones/encounters are constantly changing, then it means you need different modifications on your gear to constantly have the 100% best setup for an encounter, which means players will constantly be seeking out a larger pool of gear to keep in their bank and face any given encounter with.

Also, actually, a lot of people don't like needing to change the look of their gear and are very happy with creating an individual look that they find most appealing and can use for years. Like if Bards could always wear Lambent armor, and just had a dozen different sets of Lambent armor with different stat mods, a lot of people would enjoy that the most.

[Borador]

Originally Posted by Zuranthium [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You don't need new zones to have new content. What's IN the zones can change, drastically (even without sandboxing). This has a carry-over effect to equipment - if zones/encounters are constantly changing, then it means you need different modifications on your gear to constantly have the 100% best setup for an encounter, which means players will constantly be seeking out a larger pool of gear to keep in their bank and face any given encounter with.

Also, actually, a lot of people don't like needing to change the look of their gear and are very happy with creating an individual look that they find most appealing and can use for years. Like if Bards could always wear Lambent armor, and just had a dozen different sets of Lambent armor with different stat mods, a lot of people would enjoy that the most.

oh my... Who are these people?! I like gear options but many games go overboard with the multiple sets of resist gear. EQ was good for a bit with just the need for resist jewelry

But the SAME item look forever? I think the best part about MMOs is either showing off your gear or seeing someone else with some amazing item you would dream about getting.

Also, I look at games as works of art. At some point you have to stop adding to it and just say, its done. That can be hard to do.

[Halius]

Originally Posted by heartbrand [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What a lot of people who companion about wow and eq post velious seem to dislike is new content. It's like you want to never upgrade your gear you got from guk or leave the original zones and starting area. Sorry to tell you but MMO's can't survive without a steady influx of new content. People aren't going to be happy with the new content if it doesn't provide upgrades for their characters.

I think the problem isn't the fact that new content is released, it is the fact that the new content so dramatically overpowers old content that people don't like it. For example from Kunark to Velious, the Kunark gear you can obtain is still relevant until you get up to Velious, where the gear is better but not by too much that it makes someone in Kunark gear irrelevant.

The problem in WoW was that when they released their first expansion BC, the green drops greatly overpowered any epic gear you may have obtained doing 10/20/40 man raids. It was just incredibly disappointing that all the gear you worked hard for was no longer relevant. And they have done that in every expansion since. EQ did it right by only slightly improving the gear in Velious so that old content still mattered when you were gearing up.

[SCB]

Originally Posted by Halius [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The problem in WoW was that when they released their first expansion BC, the green drops greatly overpowered any epic gear you may have obtained doing 10/20/40 man raids. It was just incredibly disappointing that all the gear you worked hard for was no longer relevant. And they have done that in every expansion since.

That's not a problem. That's a solution to a problem. It's a solution you don't like and I'm lukewarm on, but it's an attempt to solve the very real problem caused by "backflagging" and such.

I'm not a huge fan of how WoW went about resolving the issue, and wish 5man instances took more of a role there, but I can understand why they'd go that route.