FTE shouts

[Vianna]

Originally Posted by Zeelot [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

A bit more distance would be nice on outdoor targets like the dragons. On many we didn't even see shouts. Also, the shouts may not work correctly when the player uses an eye of zomm to take initial aggro. Gorenaire didn't seem to shout when pulled using an eye.

But other than that the shouts are awesome. Thanks for putting them in.

Yeah Talendors range was pretty good though you didn't have to be right up on it to see it. Would be good to be zone wide for those though or close to it so people know whether to back off to see if it has reset on the pull and give em time to decide to see they didn't actually have the shout. When 2 or 3 pullers are on a mob and one dies sometimes you pickup aggro from trying to tag at the same time and still kill another guilds FTE etc.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I like em I just would like a clarification from GMS. IF say 2 pullers go for a raid mob from opposing guilds. One gets the FTE shout but the other gets on the hate list....Does the list have to clear and a new shout given before a guild can kill that mob and get credit ? I witnessed the last Talendor pull on my monk today and a rapture puller had the FTE shout so I pulled off to let him have it...he died while I was following and no other FTE shout was given that I saw personally before it was pulled and killed. I was waiting on the reset to try again thinking the mob needs to reset his FTE shout before pulling.

technically, yes, would need to completely reset otherwise the aggro list is still active with the other guy having FTE.

[Ele]

Is it possible that the FTE shouts on dracoliche and CT could have messed with the zone wide DT list when aggroing draco/golem/ct? There were some issues where the DT cycle seemed to have long pauses in it or would reset.

[Frieza_Prexus]

Originally Posted by Writ3r [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Don't act as if this change is what remedied the situation

There's an undeniable and immediate correlation between the demise of socking and the implementation of the windows.

The only thing I have ever claimed is that they remedied was the variance's inability to completely eliminate socking. The variance is now functioning as it was originally intended. I personally believe that this server would prosper more with a system that prevents a person from ever knowing when a mob will spawn with any real certainty than it would under the previous variance or under a non-variance system. But, I'm open to the idea that I am mistaken. I think it'd be a great thing if we spent the next few months trying different schemes for a month or two at a time to gather data.

If you're really interested in improving the server make your argument more thoroughly and with a more proper presentation. I love raiding and rushing to engage a target as much as anyone in TMO, but don't accuse me of bad faith without just cause. Recrimination isn't going to move the ball.

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Frieza_Prexus [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's an undeniable and immediate correlation between the demise of socking and the implementation of the windows.

There's also undeniably a fair amount of favoritism towards zerg guilds with massive numbers by pushing massive windows - and to this point, both Nilbog and Rogean have admitted as much.

So what've we got as of late...

- We've got Nilbog and Rogean changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game because a few people used mouse and keyboard recorders to grab FTE. Somehow changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game is the logical solution to this problem.

- They've added another variance on top of the former one (that never worked and has been in place for three years) that the vast majority of players don't want, admitting that it's to the detriment of the majority of this server's raiding guilds and players. Mind you that this has been in place since February of this year, because apparently an "oopsie" that they admit actually harms more people than it helps is quite fine to sit in place for half a year (and it would be uncharacteristic to expect any sort of changes at all)

- Now we get an FTE shout mechanic that's going to require another 3-4 fixes before it's even passable

Frieza, there's little doubt the raid scene is a constant work in progress but that would be ignoring the apathy, ignorance, and inaptitude of the two at the top to actually take the proper steps to correct - or more accurately take any steps at all. It's gotten to the point where it's the same two people fumbling ball yet you're pointing to the dropped ball as the problem.

You can have the most accurate code that very closely resembles classic, but if you're implementation is anything but then it's all for nothing. What makes this worse is that they've admitted there are serious issues with it and that they've pushed patches recently that benefit no one or favor a certain subset of people, yet it's been nearly half a year and it still hasn't been fixed. If you're thinking, "How does that even happen?" then you need to remember that it's the same two people that kept the massive variance when it didn't work for a full three years, push patches that don't agree with, and are about as consistent as a coin flip. When you take into account what's happened the last 3+ years then it makes far more sense: they don't give a fuck, so why the hell do you?

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There's also undeniably a fair amount of favoritism towards zerg guilds with massive numbers by pushing massive windows - and to this point, both Nilbog and Rogean have admitted as much.

So what've we got as of late...

- We've got Nilbog and Rogean changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game because a few people used mouse and keyboard recorders to grab FTE. Somehow changing the mechanics of every NPC in the game is the logical solution to this problem.

- They've added another variance on top of the former one (that never worked and has been in place for three years) that the vast majority of players don't want, admitting that it's to the detriment of the majority of this server's raiding guilds and players. Mind you that this has been in place since February of this year, because apparently an "oopsie" that they admit actually harms more people than it helps is quite fine to sit in place for half a year (and it would be uncharacteristic to expect any sort of changes at all)

- Now we get an FTE shout mechanic that's going to require another 3-4 fixes before it's even passable

Frieza, there's little doubt the raid scene is a constant work in progress but that would be ignoring the apathy, ignorance, and inaptitude of the two at the top to actually take the proper steps to correct - or more accurately take any steps at all. It's gotten to the point where it's the same two people fumbling ball yet you're pointing to the dropped ball as the problem.

You can have the most accurate code that very closely resembles classic, but if you're implementation is anything but then it's all for nothing. What makes this worse is that they've admitted there are serious issues with it and that they've pushed patches recently that benefit no one or favor a certain subset of people, yet it's been nearly half a year and it still hasn't been fixed. If you're thinking, "How does that even happen?" then you need to remember that it's the same two people that kept the massive variance when it didn't work for a full three years, push patches that don't agree with, and are about as consistent as a coin flip. When you take into account what's happened the last 3+ years then it makes far more sense: they don't give a fuck, so why the hell do you?

Well I'm on right now, not giving a fuck I guess. Adding the fte shouts, which are perl.. not even c++, took all of 10 minutes to figure out the best way, then about 5 more to implement. If it saves our gms time and petitions, great. If not, they will be changed or removed. This thread isn't about variance. If anyone on the 'staff' would want no variance, it is me. I also want npcs to win every fight, for players to have no item links, move around items within banked containers, and have their autoattack key default bound to 'A'. These issues to me are just as important as variance is to you.

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?

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For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

The fte messages will not function on the pvp server.

[Ele]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I also want npcs to win every fight, for players to have no item links, move around items within banked containers, and have their autoattack key default bound to 'A'.

[You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[RevengeofGio]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I'm on right now, not giving a fuck I guess. Adding the fte shouts, which are perl.. not even c++, took all of 10 minutes to figure out the best way, then about 5 more to implement. If it saves our gms time and petitions, great. If not, they will be changed or removed. This thread isn't about variance. If anyone on the 'staff' would want no variance, it is me. I also want npcs to win every fight, for players to have no item links, move around items within banked containers, and have their autoattack key default bound to 'A'. These issues to me are just as important as variance is to you.

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

The fte messages will not function on the pvp server.

The role of a project manager can be described like this:

Every man on the team is in a line. Then people say who's to blame for this issue! Everyone else steps back 1 foot meanwhile the project has a beam behind him.

[xCry0x]

Originally Posted by RevengeofGio [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The role of a project manager can be described like this:

Every man on the team is in a line. Then people say who's to blame for this issue! Everyone else steps back 1 foot meanwhile the project has a beam behind him.

And you spend 99% of your time trying to explain to people that due to not having unlimited engineering resources everything they want added cannot be done overnight =P

Priorities???? Bullshit everything in the world should be implemented by Monday!

[Skope]

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well I'm on right now, not giving a fuck I guess. Adding the fte shouts, which are perl.. not even c++, took all of 10 minutes to figure out the best way, then about 5 more to implement. If it saves our gms time and petitions, great. If not, they will be changed or removed.

But how long would it take you to remove something that you've already admitted favors a certain subset of players? 6 months? 7? another three years?

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This thread isn't about variance. If anyone on the 'staff' would want no variance, it is me.

This holds no water. 3+ years of the original variance that never worked and now you two (you've given the nod on this, as you two discussed it) to add another variance on top of it, which itself has been around for another 5 months.

You can claim you dislike it and that the additional variance sucks, but ultimately it's still here and has been here for the vast majority this server has been up. While I appreciate your sentiment, it's fruitless unless it's addressed. The patch notes say one thing (keep adding variance) while your forum posts say you dislike it and think it should be done away with. I agree with your forum posts, but who the hell gives a shit when the patch notes state the exact opposite? Unless it's RnF, we're not playing on the forums.

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't perform GM duties nor pay the folks who do.. so you won't see me forcing that upon them, especially when Rogean is in charge of csr. Go ahead and blame me if you need, because it certainly says project manager beneath my name. If you have a problem with content, you come right to me, ok?

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For those who asked: weekly simulated patch day respawns are still on my agenda and will continue to be worked on amidst velious development.

The fte messages will not function on the pvp server.

You've given the nod on this stuff, Nilbog. It's not like he went behind your back to implement it. 'Do whatever you want' only works provided there aren't screwups in the decision-making process, yet there's clearly been quite a few screwups in the decision-making process. In the end it makes both of you look bad.

The issue with FTE is that it isn't a step in the forward direction, but rather a step to the side that by itself does nothing to improve the situation. Coupled with the fact that there are blatant holes in the implementation and the other 'what in the hell were they thinking?' patches, one can only think of what's been ignored for seemingly an eternity would've been the better approach here. But hey, we've got FTE, right?