Why do people say SK's do more DPS than Paladins?

[Mendo]

Originally Posted by Pint [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I solo'd eejag on my paladin for a monk alt and it only took loh but my gear is pretty good. I havnt solo'd chardok but I've solo'd all of crypt including the emp and just running between hiero and duke spawn is trivial and decent depending on cloak/bracer rng. I've also solo crawled to the various frog camps for fun but it's not worth it from a farming/pp perspective. Chardok names would be pretty trivial to kill as a paladin but keeping up faction would be a hassle I imagine. Struggling to think of much else that is cool, I solo'd reavers and killed the shm epic mob in com for the sk in shield but again fairly trivial and no real pp in it. Never tried a cliff golem but I imagine a soulfire would make it trivial as well.

It's been forever since I've played my Sexknight but I solo'd many of the Chardok named mobs with ease.

One of my favorite things about the SK was the ability to faction quickly. I'd get my chardok or giant or whatever faction up super fast by grabbing 25 mobs and face tanking them while doing PBAOE spells to down them quickly.

I never really thought of using the knight as DPS really though. My SK was for creating big ass trains, doing some cool pulls, tanking every now and then. Laying down an FD right as the dragon died so I wouldn't lose faction.

[Snaggles]

Well raid dps matters because most 6-man kills don’t matter. The game isn’t tough: I’ve been a +1 with rogues, warriors, and clerics. A durable backup tank that does 60dps is sometimes better than a paper bag that does 100.

Melees are all good. A class, B class, C class. I’d rather take an extra 6 self sufficient knights or rangers with decent weapons to an extra 6 shamans or druids.

At this stage bank your dkp and get your hybrid out of the D class dps world ASAP. It’s easy to bump to that next level so don’t buy a shiny mask or pair of gloves if you have any understanding how math works. Weapon, haste, avatar, etc. Then worry about dex or something.

As for solo challenges its not crazy that a SK would pull ahead for tank and spanks. Again...its math. Drain Soul IF it goes the full 6.1 second cast is 55hps/sec plus a DD for 338. I understand it's not quite a 6.1 second cast so the healing per second is even higher. Celestial Cleansing is 1.5 sec cast on a 30 second CD, it heals for 750-875hps...it's basically 30hp/sec. Better mana efficiency, slower rate of return. Plus you can keep a rogue alive on a raid with it...so it's a better spell in many ways.

[Elrood]

The subject of this thread is Paladin vs. Shadowknight DPS. Any discussion thereof is relevant

I'm terrible at this game and know jack shit about the deeper mechanics. Would it be fair to say that a Paladin that's constantly Yaulping, gaining that virtually nonstop attack increase, would make a difference? Or is Yaulp total bullshit?

[Snaggles]

Originally Posted by Elrood [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The subject of this thread is Paladin vs. Shadowknight DPS. Any discussion thereof is relevant

I'm terrible at this game and know jack shit about the deeper mechanics. Would it be fair to say that a Paladin that's constantly Yaulping, gaining that virtually nonstop attack increase, would make a difference? Or is Yaulp total bullshit?

I wouldn’t cut yourself short. Most of us don’t know half what we think or a quarter of what we pretend, lol.

Y1-3 are pretty meh. The forth iteration is only 1 mana and gives raw attack along with the standard AC and strength. It’s about the same as a SK with Shroud of Hate and the ranger SoN stacked. Really most non-dwarves in tanking gear even with Focus will barely cap STR with Yaulp4. It gives me like 80 attack at 60 and doesn’t cost you a melee round so it’s good to keep loaded. If only it stacked with the shielding line (Dain hammer or Stave of Shielding), but that’s a minor complaint.

Paladins and SK’s are very equal across the board. Maybe a bit more raid optimized as a pally and more grind group or solo optimized for the SK. Both pretty great at high levels of gear and player skill. They even hold up well these days with Ec gear.

[Toxigen]

I watched Sudz destroy some shit when he first got his Palladius.

[Ripqozko]

All this thread to circle back to what I said, they are about equal dps. Sure few things can swing it, but generally they are about the same and both fun.

[Crede]

Originally Posted by Ripqozko [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

All this thread to circle back to what I said, they are about equal dps. Sure few things can swing it, but generally they are about the same and both fun.

Except they aren’t equal, unless you’re only talking about raids in which case who cares about knight dps on raids.

Final pet/pets will be 25+ dps edge alone, not even including other dots, multiple taps, etc. if there was a wep you knew would do 25 more dps then Tuna sword people would bust a nut over it. There’s a reason why people say SK are better dps. It’s because they are. No myth or exaggeration about it.

[Ripqozko]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except they aren’t equal, unless you’re only talking about raids in which case who cares about knight dps on raids.

Final pet/pets will be 25+ dps edge alone, not even including other dots, multiple taps, etc. if there was a wep you knew would do 25 more dps then Tuna sword people would bust a nut over it. There’s a reason why people say SK are better dps. It’s because they are. No myth or exaggeration about it.

Sorry you don't got raid

[DeathsSilkyMist]

Originally Posted by Crede [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except they aren’t equal, unless you’re only talking about raids in which case who cares about knight dps on raids.

Final pet/pets will be 25+ dps edge alone, not even including other dots, multiple taps, etc. if there was a wep you knew would do 25 more dps then Tuna sword people would bust a nut over it. There’s a reason why people say SK are better dps. It’s because they are. No myth or exaggeration about it.

Exactly. Everybody agrees that Paladins and SKs do the same damage if all you are doing is autoattacking with the same weapon. Otherwise, SKs will do more DPS due to Pet + Banshee Aura + Offensive Spells.

Paladins and SKs are typically soloing/grouping more than they are raiding. They are not DPS classes in raids, and raids simply don't need that many knights. You are probably swapping to another class.

That isn't to say DPS is the only consideration for how well a class operates. Paladins are a great class too. But OP's question is specific to DPS, and SKs will deal more DPS in most scenarios.

[Atmas]

This thread is super off the rails now but interesting to hear people's perspectives.

Tempted to make a video of soloing seb entrance down to NG but obviously being level 60 makes a big difference. Plus I've got about BiS gear and weapons that make a huge difference. The truth is I can pacify a lot of stuff in seb before the more MR mobs. Just even having ring 10 is huge.

I feel like a lot of people have no clue about knights in raids. I don't hardcore raid really anymore and I can't exactly speak for SKs but Paladin always felt super useful on raids. I'd tank trash mobs and snap agro made things so much faster. Plenty of times I'd have to pick up dragons when warriors died or be ramp tank. I did a lot of healing. Smart rogues/monks know if you can get a Paly to heal you that's more dps than getting torpor. I also snapped agro on pets, helping enchanters a lot (loss of pet health bars sucked). Finally, knight dps isn't great but it can be decent and present when an extra person of a different class doesn't add much of anything. I remember on a Tunare beating some 55-56 rogues.

As far as soloing goes, without using consumables I can do black reavers, cliff golems, stuff in chardok like KM, BM, DM, OS etc. In seb I can do NG and some other camps, like crypt, I've never tried Emp but I know Pint's done it. Some things like the cliff golem I would proc avatar on a summoned eye before starting the fight.

Also without consumables I've done soloed Lord Rak`Ashiir, Neh`Ashiir, Coercer Q`ioul. I did A3 but never tried A4 because it was always camped. I know Keerarae did A4. I pretty much soloed 4 PoM flowers (not MR). Though these ones can get pretty dicey and there can be a lot of setup. Obviously with soulfire I can do some bigger stuff. One of the last things I really want is a Willsapper to try soloing a few more things. Interestingly there are some things a Paladin has an easier time with because a mob might be super resistant and their mana goes towards healing.

Up to you guys how you want to classify Regal Band of Bathezid it's rechargable for free. I don't NEED it for anything in this list but I use it and it helps a lot having a 35 damage shield because it stacks with Ring 10.