@Rogean, surely this is not the ToV raid scene you intended after 4/2019

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That said, raids would be nothing short of amazing if every class, or at least most classes, required the same coordination and involvement as necro/monk pulls did back then. Just listening to those players communicate in voice was some of the best EQ. But then came the time to kill the target and it was just that, a target differentiated not by its effects or surroundings, but by the loot on its table only.

Rooted dragons aren't that awkward of a fit when the world itself is sectioned off by zonelines. If there weren't any zones in Norrath, Trakanon could be pulled out of Seb, bypassing the key requirement for all but the pull team and corpse draggers. Even some of the zone names indicate the devs' mindsets. Naggy is fought in Sol B (Nagafen's Lair). Velk is fought in Velketor's Labyrinth. Without zonelines, both could be pulled to nearby druid rings and killed with ease.

Instead, bosses are confined to their dungeon zones, similar to the gods in their planes, with the rare exceptions being GM events and the sleeper's awakening.

As big as the zone is, the lairs in ToV aren't separate or distinct enough, the way that the islands are in PoS. And as annoying as PoS can be, progressing through it encourages active participation and requires at least some vigilance by all involved. In ToV, the same participation/vigilance can only be encouraged if the dragons themselves are fixed in place. Call it unclassic, but there are examples of this elsewhere, one being Eejag in Lavastorm. He's rooted in the lava for a reason because it was meant to act as his lair, where he would have the advantage as players struggled with poor visibility, swimming/breathing, and persistent fire damage.

It's easy to think up a few alternatives. Each of the dragons in VP/ToV spawning at different lair locations, with any of the abilities of other dragons, at random, while also sharing loot tables. Players then wouldn't know what they were getting into until they were already committed to killing it and their efforts could still be in vain, potentially earning them the worst loot. Random is the one shared unknown amongst the playerbase. We don't know when a quake will happen, if our guild will get FTE, whether the mob will have the item we want, etc. The more unknowably RNG a game is (within reason), the less routinized and job-like it risks becoming. But, well, not classic.

What I take from this is 'The Vision' the original team had with it's ultimo-raid zones were botched (within EQ terms) because they wanted a huge final place to sell each expansion to the raider minded. VP and TOV are both cubby-holes with numerous end game bosses.

If wonder if Kunark and Velious had been complete and sold with the original game (like it might've been intended) if those places would have been designed the same.

[Whale biologist]

Originally Posted by Ennewi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Call it unclassic, but there are examples of this elsewhere, one being Eejag in Lavastorm. He's rooted in the lava for a reason because it was meant to act as his lair, where he would have the advantage as players struggled with poor visibility, swimming/breathing, and persistent fire damage.

In EQ sometimes you can breathe lava, but zergs are definitely classic.

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[derpcake2]

Unclassic stuff leading to more unclassic stuff.

meh/5 stars

[starkind]

The oRiGinaL the vision (tm) never even considered raids and 60 ppl doing shit.

At most two groups.

Mostly just a "living world" and each character has something unique it brings that plays into the world.

Necromancer is supposed to be the only "strong class" barely able to solo. And only efficiently, not dark blues or boss mobs at high level.

They caved in kunark and abandoned the vision entirely.

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Ravager [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It doesn't matter what they do. Necks are gonna beard. Accept that or move on.

https://twitter.com/buzzworddujour/s...79307852754946

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by starkind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The oRiGinaL the vision (tm) never even considered raids and 60 ppl doing shit.

At most two groups.

Mostly just a "living world" and each character has something unique it brings that plays into the world.

Necromancer is supposed to be the only "strong class" barely able to solo. And only efficiently, not dark blues or boss mobs at high level.

They caved in kunark and abandoned the vision entirely.

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[Danth]

Originally Posted by Mblake1981 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If wonder if Kunark and Velious had been complete and sold with the original game (like it might've been intended) if those places would have been designed the same.

I don't wonder about that; I consider it a certainty. The technology was different in terms of allowed zone size and polygon counts/etc, and the philosophy changed as well. Look at how by Velious player starting faction becomes virtually irrelevant, as does player size--all dungeon zone interiors are large enough to permit ogres free movement. Kunark wouldn't have needed its own standalone leveling path if it was packaged as part of the original game. You'd have more but smaller zones without the extended zone-lines that were a direct consequence of the developers trying to discourage zone-line camping/pulling. I'm not sure you'd have iksar at all, at least not in their extant form, without sales pressure driving the addition of an "overpowered" new race.

I might have liked that alternate world version of the game, but what we have here on P99 is pretty good too.

Danth

[Mblake1981]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't wonder about that; I consider it a certainty. The technology was different in terms of allowed zone size and polygon counts/etc, and the philosophy changed as well. Look at how by Velious player starting faction becomes virtually irrelevant, as does player size--all dungeon zone interiors are large enough to permit ogres free movement. Kunark wouldn't have needed its own standalone leveling path if it was packaged as part of the original game. You'd have more but smaller zones without the extended zone-lines that were a direct consequence of the developers trying to discourage zone-line camping/pulling. I'm not sure you'd have iksar at all, at least not in their extant form, without sales pressure driving the addition of an "overpowered" new race.

I might have liked that alternate world version of the game, but what we have here on P99 is pretty good too.

Danth

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[Mblake1981]

Classic hill giant model in plate armor for Kael.
Altered model for Kunark forest giants (instead of Kunark hillbillies)

10/10

[Naethyn]

Bring on vulak ring, ancient spells, and artifacts.