not a single player has told me to plan on raiding

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Enslaved [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I have yet to hear a single non-absurd argument for the continuation of Variance on this server. Please feel free to contribute.

You have repeated this over and over so I'll use the same argument Sirkin stated in another thread today:

as far as different rules for different bosses or different raids, that was a problem all on its own. it started because i didnt like 100 afk people sitting on trak spawn spot, and a random number generator giving FTE to an AFK player. it was stupid, and it killed any and all competition/racing for the mobs it was happening on.

Basically, a FTE poopsock fest is not a healthy or good competition. It doesn't measure much. The "winner" is the guild that got picked by the random number generator. You think that is the best way to determine who deserves the loot?

To many, the best competition that this game can offer, is a mobilization contest that this variance creates.

I don't think anybody can honestly say that they think its a better "competition" to have 4 guilds standing on a mob spawn and killing it instantly and having a random number generator choose the winner compared to "which guild can engage a monster first that can spawn at a random time."

The people here from smaller non-tracking guilds wanting the removal of variance completely, simply want the ability to poopsock mobs and let a random number generator determine the victor, with very minimal time invested. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't sit here and act like it's "better for the server" or it "makes for a better competition" or "the server is dying cuz TMO". The server certainly isn't dying, and the raid scene is certainly not in a state where it could ever cause the server to die.

If you other guilds really wanted better "competition" than your suggestions would reflect that. They don't for the most part. The fact is, no matter what changes are made, if there is supposed to be a sense of "competition", then that means a guild can be the best on the server in whatever that competition consists of. That means they will get a huge majority of the loot. The only way for this to not be the case, is for there to be no competition, i.e. GM forced rotations or FTE poopsock lotteries. That's fine if you want that, but at least say it. At least just say "TMO is better than us, and we just wish we could get loot without working as hard as they do". There have been some great suggestions, such as making VP a non-training zone and having more notice on server repops and I think those are good reasonable changes that wouldn't remove the spirit of competition from the server.

[Lyra]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think that is the best way to determine who deserves the loot?

There are a lot of things in this state of the game that may not be best.

If we are going to make changes to make the game better, we sure aren't going to call it classic EQ, are we?

Clearly....ever so clearly....variance is not some brilliant improvement to original EQ.

I am in no way guaranteeing an immediate resolution to this servers raiding scene problems, but it will at least give us the original game.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Lyra [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

There are a lot of things in this state of the game that may not be best.

If we are going to make changes to make the game better, we sure aren't going to call it classic EQ, are we?

Clearly....ever so clearly....variance is not some brilliant improvement to original EQ.

I am in no way guaranteeing an immediate resolution to this servers raiding scene problems, but it will at least give us the original game.

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience. I see your point, classic is classic and that's what this server is. But nobody is screaming to bring the spellbook back and there are many many many examples that players are thankful that it's not "completely classic". I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

[Lyra]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience. I see your point, classic is classic and that's what this server is. But nobody is screaming to bring the spellbook back and there are many many many examples that players are thankful that it's not "completely classic". I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

OK

Project 1999 is not classic.

I'll spread the word.

Thanks

[Toodles]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

..... I'd rather have the server staff choose to do what they think is best for the server. At least it's clear that the people complaining, simply don't want to compete and simply want the chance at free loot without the work.

I get that it's super easy to just say "it's Classic" and not have to argue points or admit that you don't want competition and honestly I don't have anything I can say to get around this loophole.

The problem is that letting the staff make such blanketed decisions affects everybody - which is salt in the wound when the only reason it's done, is to appease(or have appeased) the large and whiny top end guilds.

When the staff took out spell book staring, they weren't getting whispers in their ear from over zealous guild leaders.

[webrunner5]

[QUOTE=Toodles;977127]The problem is that letting the staff make such blanketed decisions affects everybody - which is salt in the wound when the only reason it's done, is to appease(or have appeased) the large and whiny top end guilds.

This game has ALWAYS appeased to the top guilds here and on live. What else is new??

[enr4ged]

Originally Posted by webrunner5 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This game has ALWAYS appeased to the top guilds here and on live. What else is new??

Not the guilds who trained others constantly, leap frogged other guilds, and were just generally all around assholes to the community. Like someone brought up earlier the PnP would have been enforced on those guilds.

Suspended from one raid mob, one time... that's the punishment? It's pathetic to say the least and hardly even a slap on the wrist.

[falkun]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Yep, "classic" was ignored in this case, for actual raiding competition. Just like "staring at the spellbook" was removed and many other non-classic things ignored to make the server better without ruining the classic experience.

Bizy, this is an extremely ignorant post. Project1999 attempts to recreate classic mechanics as best as possible (minus variance). The only times classic mechanics are not strictly honored is when its not possible. As for your example for the spell book, that is, from all reports, an unfixable client issue. THAT is the only reason it is allowed to exist, NOT to "make the server better without ruining the classic experience."

Originally Posted by Nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Level 35.

Unfixable, afaik.

Below, Nilbog agrees with a poster stating the exact opposite of what you opine: not staring at a spellbook ruins classic authenticity. Note in the following post I added OP's comment for context.

Originally Posted by nilbog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

OP, yes, it's classic, I miss it, and I love nerfing casters.

Spellbook medding wasn't removed until 2002. :P

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by skipdog [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

To many, the best competition that this game can offer, is a mobilization contest that this variance creates.

This is simply not true. You have a tracking competition, and a 'who can log out the most buffed chars' competition.

[skipdog]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This is simply not true. You have a tracking competition, and a 'who can log out the most buffed chars' competition.

When I said a "mobilization contest" I was in fact, referring to everything that goes into mobilization. That included tracking, having multiple characters parked in multiple places, responding to bat phones etc. Sorry I didn't go into depth with my response.

Having characters ready to be at any location certainly is a part of mobilization. I can see you guys are really grasping now.