Memorial Day is a day we should ask a question.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Reapin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you answer yes, explain how it was worth their life.

Both of the wars were really no more or less legitimate than any other war we've ever been in, except possibly the Civil War.

How you look at it really depends on how you feel about globalization. Do you think one country has the right to brutalize, oppress, or swindle another for their own gain? Are you a cultural relativist or do you think some cultures are just better than others?

Neither of the wars were isolated incidents that occurred in a geopolitical vacuum, they were both part of long tangents in US foreign policy and it's disingenuous to try and isolate them from the system and evaluate them piecemeal.

Yes, the defense industry is out of control, yes Iraq was fairly pointless, and yes Afghanistan was poorly executed.

You blame Bush for this, but you have an electorate who refuses to elect candidates looking to make significant military cuts because of "soft on terror" rhetoric. You elect congressmen and senators who bring home pork-barrel deals for military bases and local defense dollars. Criticizing support for Israel is political suicide, while Israel manhandles muslims and operates a belligerent, hamfisted regime that sows hatred for the United States across the entire middle east.

And collectively, at least among the conservative a middle-aged moderate side, you idolize Ronald Reagan who was responsible for militarization on a scale that makes Bush look like Ron Paul.

Americans fucking love war. We're one of the most martial, militaristic societies on Earth. You can't scapegoat Bush for this... you've gotta accept that when you've got a nation pumped up with a $664 billion defense budget and a highly war-tolerant populace, you're going to fly off the handle and smash some people even when it may not make sense to do so.

Anyway, you shouldn't be surprised there were greedy corporate whores in the Bush administration when there is nothing more American than being a greedy whore, buying as much shit as possible, working as many hours as possible, to make as much money as possible to feed your affluenza.

[Reapin]

Originally Posted by Ephirith [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Both of the wars were really no more or less legitimate than any other war we've ever been in, except possibly the Civil War.

How you look at it really depends on how you feel about globalization. Do you think one country has the right to brutalize, oppress, or swindle another for their own gain? Are you a cultural relativist or do you think some cultures are just better than others?

Neither of the wars were isolated incidents that occurred in a geopolitical vacuum, they were both part of long tangents in US foreign policy and it's disingenuous to try and isolate them from the system and evaluate them piecemeal.

Yes, the defense industry is out of control, yes Iraq was fairly pointless, and yes Afghanistan was poorly executed.

You blame Bush for this, but you have an electorate who refuses to elect candidates looking to make significant military cuts because of "soft on terror" rhetoric. You elect congressmen and senators who bring home pork-barrel deals for military bases and local defense dollars. Criticizing support for Israel is political suicide.

And collectively, at least among the conservative a middle-aged moderate side, you idolize Ronald Reagan who was responsible for militarization on a scale that makes Bush look like Ron Paul.

Americans fucking love war. We're one of the most martial, militaristic societies on Earth. You can't scapegoat Bush for this... you've gotta accept that when you've got a nation pumped up with a $664 billion defense budget and a highly war-tolerant populace, you're going to fly off the handle and smash some people even when it may not make sense to do so.

Anyway, you shouldn't be surprised there were greedy corporate whores in the Bush administration when there is nothing more American than being a greedy whore, buying as much shit as possible, working as many hours as possible, to make as much money as possible to feed your affluenza.

I agree with everything you said. I focus on the current atrocities committed by America because the youth of today care little of history. History to them is what was on TV in the 90's when they were pre-teens. Every war since WW2 has been an illegitimate war. Bush put us in 2 wars to make up for the losses the defense industry had in the 90's When Clinton refused to have a War.

[Ephirith]

Originally Posted by Reapin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with everything you said. I focus on the current atrocities committed by America because the youth of today care little of history. History to them is what was on TV in the 90's when they were pre-teens. Every war since WW2 has been an illegitimate war. Bush put us in 2 wars to make up for the losses the defense industry had in the 90's When Clinton refused to have a War.

Nah, I'm pretty sure you focus on the current "atrocities" because they are culturally relevant right now and you don't know shit about history. Clinton participated in an intervention in Kosovo and the USA, via NATO, footed the bill for a lot of UN activities during this period, and his cuts to defense were proportionately pretty paltry.

And anyway, I'm not sure what makes World War 2 so much more legitimate. We just got tangled up in Imperial Belligerence Round II. Yep, Nazis were exterminating people but we didn't really know or care, and it certainly wasn't the motivation for our alignment with Britain, lend lease, or our participation in the Undeclared War in the Atlantic, all of which motivated and preceded Japan's attack.

Solely in terms of foreign policy, Great Britain wasn't some innocent victim either; you need to keep in mind that at this point in time they were still one of the world's premier powers, and they had a network of alliances, guarantees, and espionage designed to prevent any other nation from attempting to make the breakout that Germany did.

[Hasbinbad]

Originally Posted by Reapin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Every war since WW2 has been an illegitimate war.

We haven't been in a war since WW2.