Adding the Planes of Power in to the original trilogy

[Dersk]

Originally Posted by Overcast [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The whole beauty is at a 'point' - say whatever's past Luclin, another server could progress right behind it, starting with classic.

My idea for a classic EQlive server was not only to be pre-luclin, but to allow free server transfers off of that server onto others so people wouldn't have to abandon a character to see the newer content. People that wanted to stay forever in the content they enjoyed would be able to. I just reminded myself how much I hate SOE hah.

[Goryani]

You want to rape the best EQ product ever to protest Luclin? If you are going to significantly alter an expansion, change the inferior one, not the superior one. Changes required to fix the issues most commonly associated with Luclin seem far far far far easier than skipping it and rewriting PoP.

1. Create 4 different Nexus in 4 different locations on the moon so they can't be used as teleports to the old world.
2. Overhaul the bane weapon issues.
3. Rename Vah Shir to Kerran.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by Goryani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You want to rape the best EQ product ever to protest Luclin? If you are going to significantly alter an expansion, change the inferior one, not the superior one. Changes required to fix the issues most commonly associated with Luclin seem far far far far easier than skipping it and rewriting PoP.

1. Create 4 different Nexus in 4 different locations on the moon so they can't be used as teleports to the old world.
2. Overhaul the bane weapon issues.
3. Rename Vah Shir to Kerran.

1. good point. I would probably connect it like this: (Spires to cities)

NK Spire - Nexus
WC Spire - Sanctus Seru
Gfay Spire - Kata Castalion
Tox Spire - Shar Vahl

put in a quest which has to be completed before any of the Spires can be accessed

2. Bane weapons/quest are cool concept, but it should not reacquire month long component camping and 300+ TS skill just to kill one and only raid mob in existence that actually needs it.

So make more bane-needed raids, but make bane weapon significantly easier to obtain - best to make it an Augment so it can be inserted into any weapon you like

3. mmm except they don't really look like Kerrans... so to be consistent you would have to replace real Kerrans with vah shir model

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Goryani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Changes required to fix the issues most commonly associated with Luclin seem far far far far easier than skipping it and rewriting PoP.

The idea wasn't to rewrite PoP at all actually. The only thing you would have to do is place the important NPCs that are in PoK and PoT in to the old world zones. When you think about it there were a ton of NPCs in those 2 zones that were just vendors, a bunch of guild masters and other redundancies, and some were just roaming around to make the place feel more alive. In other words many NPCs can be completely left out instead of being relocated.

Originally Posted by Goryani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

1. Create 4 different Nexus in 4 different locations on the moon so they can't be used as teleports to the old world.

If you don't have the moon you don't need teleporters to it.

Originally Posted by Goryani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

2. Overhaul the bane weapon issues.

If you don't have the creatures on the moon, you don't need bane weapons for them.

Originally Posted by Goryani [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

3. Rename Vah Shir to Kerran.

And you would still end up with cats on the moon.

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Basically, the only reason I came up with the idea in the first place is because Nilbog and others hated Luclin all together. Since it's not my sandbox and I don't know the first thing about how to run a server why would I come up with an idea that would never see the light of day?

Of course even the idea in its current form will probably never see the light of day but it's fun to daydream.

Anyway, I still stand by the fact that by introducing Luclin you are introducing the Bazaar and cities that any race can roam around freely in by default which equals central hubs that everyone can congregate to with practically zero work or risk. This defeats the purpose of getting rid of the Plane of Knowledge. If you include places like Katta Castellum, Sanctus Seru, (and more importantly) Shadow Haven, The Bazaar and The Nexus then what's the point of leaving out PoK?


The lower level Luclin zones only serve to detract from all the lower level zones already available in Norrath. I highly doubt the server population would ever get so big that it would warrant adding those tons and tons of locations.

Basically the only reason Luclin worked was because The Nexus and those hub cities existed. Without them it's simply not convenient to adventure there.
The Nexus and those hub cities just so happen to be the cause of, what many agree, started the decline of Everquest.
On the flip side, The Planes of Power expansion was the epitome of MMO raiding and by simply changing the way you get to those zones you leave intact the original feel of Norrath. PoP was practically written as the last chapter of Everquest, where as Luclin felt like a major sidetrack.

Again these are all just my opinions and this thread is just a thought experiment. But it's one I put much thought into.

[Kika Maslyaka]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway, I still stand by the fact that by introducing Luclin you are introducing the Bazaar and cities that any race can roam around freely in by default which equals central hubs that everyone can congregate to with practically zero work or risk. This defeats the purpose of getting rid of the Plane of Knowledge. If you include places like Katta Castellum, Sanctus Seru, (and more importantly) Shadow Haven, The Bazaar and The Nexus then what's the point of leaving out PoK?


The lower level Luclin zones only serve to detract from all the lower level zones already available in Norrath. I highly doubt the server population would ever get so big that it would warrant adding those tons and tons of locations.

you missing an important point here - if you going custom- this means you don't have just add a whole expansion "as is".
You don't want bazaar? - so block access to it - problem solved.

You don't want to create neutral faction hubs - put them on faction which has to be worked on. Seru btw is KOS to evil race/classes from the start

Don't want low end Luclin zones? Up their level [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]
seriously, customization probabilities are limitless - you can turn on or block ANY specific zone you want

[Goryani]

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The idea wasn't to rewrite PoP at all actually. The only thing you would have to do is place the important NPCs that are in PoK and PoT in to the old world zones.

Rewriting PoP will be required to make it enjoyable without Luclin or PoK/PoT (maybe if you allow 2 boxed druids/wizards specifically for the new multi-hour long travel requirements...).

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If you don't have the moon you don't need teleporters to it.

If you don't have the creatures on the moon, you don't need bane weapons for them.

And you would still end up with cats on the moon.

Bad argument is bad argument. Skipping an expansion due to disliked elements means Project1999 wouldn't exist.

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Anyway, I still stand by the fact that by introducing Luclin you are introducing the Bazaar and cities that any race can roam around freely in by default which equals central hubs that everyone can congregate to with practically zero work or risk. This defeats the purpose of getting rid of the Plane of Knowledge. If you include places like Katta Castellum, Sanctus Seru, (and more importantly) Shadow Haven, The Bazaar and The Nexus then what's the point of leaving out PoK?

I don't understand this reason at all. Players create central hubs even if game designers don't. A central hub more convenient to all players makes all players happier. Less time wasted per day equates to days of /played time saved.

The debate over EC-NFP-GFay establishes the central hub that everyone congregates. EC wins because it is equidistant from good banks, evil banks, low level zones, mid level zones, original EQ high level zones, boats, and wizard/druid port locations. EC won because it has the least amount of time wasted and player hatred.

If you want a certain race/class/deity combo to have to work at faction, then make them work at faction in PoK/Shadowhaven/Bazaar/wherever. Place original EQ/Kunark NPCs and factions throughout the various sections of those cities (but expect a major backlash from players because arbitrary time sinks suck - hello bane weapons and travel time).

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The lower level Luclin zones only serve to detract from all the lower level zones already available in Norrath. I highly doubt the server population would ever get so big that it would warrant adding those tons and tons of locations.

How many say the same things about Kunark outdoor zones? Aside from loot and easing overcrowding issues, they are as useless. So are the Karanas and the Deserts of Ro.

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Basically the only reason Luclin worked was because The Nexus and those hub cities existed. Without them it's simply not convenient to adventure there.

If Luclin won't work without hub cities, how will PoP work without them? See above for the multi-hour travel time from zone to zone. Lavastorm to Plane of Growth for a pick up group... North Karana to Kaladim...

Originally Posted by guineapig [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The Nexus and those hub cities just so happen to be the cause of, what many agree, started the decline of Everquest.

I don't know of anyone who dislikes hub cities yet liked the contentious issues of Luclin and PoP (grueling expansion schedule, AA grind, keys/flags, mudflation, new lore, etc). Hub cities get included to make a list look bigger and more menacing but no one will bother creating a list where hub cities is the number one flaw. Such a game will literally be perfect.