Server not thriving anymore

[Tradesonred]

Im not sure if i should be optimistic or not.

Sirken says xp loss is getting looked into but at the same time keeps saying if i want a server like Rallos, i should look into another game.

I hope they take the time to read the input i provided as i took the time to try to project what a server i would really enjoy playing on looks like, and its not a hard tweak to do.

Sirken is really off the mark with his "no purpose to pvping for nothing", theres a reason why zones like Blackburrow and Crushbone were always buzzing with pvp activity on Rallos, because it was pure fun. You have to stop seeing this as griefing that will make people quit the server, its the opposite. People will be trippin balls, smoking bowls having fun pvping all nite on their alts and shit. < Shit's classic.

You guys should just forget this "Whatever goes in, stays" stuff IMO. We can take 2 weeks off completely removing xp loss as a trial basis to see if everybody is enjoying themselves more. I would announce a 2 week trial period with a temporary xp bonus and watch the population skyrocket as word to mouth spreads about how fun the server has become. Id go play my lowbie wiz on the side and ally with non-geared new fishes and play an anti-pk white knight type alt to help em crush twink griefers.

I havent played in a month but the minute i see a post that xp loss has been patched im logging back in.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if i should be optimistic or not.

Sirken says xp loss is getting looked into but at the same time keeps saying if i want a server like Rallos, i should look into another game.

I hope they take the time to read the input i provided as i took the time to try to project what a server i would really enjoy playing on looks like, and its not a hard tweak to do.

Sirken is really off the mark with his "no purpose to pvping for nothing", theres a reason why zones like Blackburrow and Crushbone were always buzzing with pvp activity on Rallos, because it was pure fun. You have to stop seeing this as griefing that will make people quit the server, its the opposite. People will be trippin balls, smoking bowls having fun pvping all nite on their alts and shit. < Shit's classic.

You guys should just forget this "Whatever goes in, stays" stuff IMO. We can take 2 weeks off completely removing xp loss as a trial basis to see if everybody is enjoying themselves more. I would announce a 2 week trial period with a temporary xp bonus and watch the population skyrocket as word to mouth spreads about how fun the server has become. Id go play my lowbie wiz on the side and ally with non-geared new fishes and play an anti-pk white knight type alt to help em crush twink griefers.

I havent played in a month but the minute i see a post that xp loss has been patched im logging back in.

Sirken believes progression and competition over PvE is the main goal and PvP is the best solution for control over PvE. The majority of the server thinks this way and enjoys progressing their characters. Otherwise there would be a larger mid level population PvPing all the time. It is fun to PvP the top players and for that you need to progress your character, and to do that you need to compete for PvE content. It is fun having a tstaff monk or a couple epics in your group when going after your enemies right?

There are also a large amount of players that don't care about progression, not a majority, but a large group.

I think both views benefit from taking exp penalty out on pvp death and both parties will benefit whether or not they have the same view on what is fun.

The important thing is Sirken has hinted that PvP exp penalty will be taken out and you will be coming back to the server, along with others I hope.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by HippoNipple [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sirken believes progression and competition over PvE is the main goal and PvP is the best solution for control over PvE. The majority of the server thinks this way and enjoys progressing their characters. Otherwise there would be a larger mid level population PvPing all the time.

Well im pretty sure the pvp action is dead because there is such a huge penalty to participating in it. I dont think we can know until the penalty is removed how much people would do it, but to me its obvious that pvp would happen more often and people might discover that a zone with 20 people duking it out for a couple of hours is pretty fuckin fun.

[HippoNipple]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Well im pretty sure the pvp action is dead because there is such a huge penalty to participating in it. I dont think we can know until the penalty is removed how much people would do it, but to me its obvious that pvp would happen more often and people might discover that a zone with 20 people duking it out for a couple of hours is pretty fuckin fun.

Agreed, I'm excited to see it happen.

[Faerie Blossom]

This might be off topic, but after 30 pages I think it's fine.

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if i should be optimistic or not.

Sirken says xp loss is getting looked into but at the same time keeps saying if i want a server like Rallos, i should look into another game.

I hope they take the time to read the input i provided as i took the time to try to project what a server i would really enjoy playing on looks like, and its not a hard tweak to do.

Sirken is really off the mark with his "no purpose to pvping for nothing", theres a reason why zones like Blackburrow and Crushbone were always buzzing with pvp activity on Rallos, because it was pure fun. You have to stop seeing this as griefing that will make people quit the server, its the opposite. People will be trippin balls, smoking bowls having fun pvping all nite on their alts and shit. < Shit's classic.

You guys should just forget this "Whatever goes in, stays" stuff IMO. We can take 2 weeks off completely removing xp loss as a trial basis to see if everybody is enjoying themselves more. I would announce a 2 week trial period with a temporary xp bonus and watch the population skyrocket as word to mouth spreads about how fun the server has become. Id go play my lowbie wiz on the side and ally with non-geared new fishes and play an anti-pk white knight type alt to help em crush twink griefers.

I havent played in a month but the minute i see a post that xp loss has been patched im logging back in.

Tradesonred, are you 50+? You keep talking about bindrushing in CB. Don't get me wrong, it was tons of fun and very classic (I think because so many people new to the servers had yet to learn the player-enforced rules of the servers yet), but it doesn't feel very relevant to this server. With population the way it is, it seems there's only ever the fungi twink wandering around in there by himself. I think as the server is so top-heavy, when people think of bindrushing they're not thinking about CB PvP between level 10s. They're thinking about contested camps where good items drop, and raids. Bindrushing was awesome in CB when you were new to EQ, but a big nuisance in high level EQ.

Did you experience much bindrushing beyond level 20, and if so do you think it was a good thing?

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Faerie Blossom [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This might be off topic, but after 30 pages I think it's fine.



Tradesonred, are you 50+? You keep talking about bindrushing in CB. Don't get me wrong, it was tons of fun and very classic (I think because so many people new to the servers had yet to learn the player-enforced rules of the servers yet), but it doesn't feel very relevant to this server. With population the way it is, it seems there's only ever the fungi twink wandering around in there by himself. I think as the server is so top-heavy, when people think of bindrushing they're not thinking about CB PvP between level 10s. They're thinking about contested camps where good items drop, and raids. Bindrushing was awesome in CB when you were new to EQ, but a big nuisance in high level EQ.

Did you experience much bindrushing beyond level 20, and if so do you think it was a good thing?

Nobody called it bindrushing on Rallos. It was just the regular order of things that youd find a spot in the forest close to the CB entrance and bind there for your session of PVP. There was no "bindrushing", youd just play there for hours, thats what the ruleset encouraged. I mean there was that if you really wanna call it that, but ive never heard people complain about it that way.

Honestly i dont see bindrushing happening alot at high levels because of trackers. If youre being stupid and binding too close to the group youre trying to fuck with, they will find your bind point and make you camp. There needs to be distance, medding between each death, so you can hardly call this "rushing". Thats the problem with "contested camps" too, there is not much contesting. Somebody shows up with a bigger roster than you and you gate out/plug. If a group of 4 sees an opportunity to engage 8 people pveing, as it is now, it probably wont happen. Without xp loss, they might try a couple of times because its fun to try. Same story with 15 people fucking with a 35 man raid. As it is now, they just wont try, the camp contestation is lacking, really. Like swyft explained a couple of posts up, you can still hold camps, you just have to approach it differently and think/work for it instead of EZmode landing a zerg on top of any camp and winning by sheer numbers.

Its such a blast to play guerilla pvp. Thats why i was so excited to have a pvp server again, until i figured out about the xp loss in pvp, which fundamentally changes the nature of the server (from what was my fun Rallos classic experience, anyway).

Its king of the hill mode. Sometimes you get the upper hand, your buddies are online and your shitlist are the ones who are trying to guerilla fuck up your pve session. Then your buddies log, his buddies show up, and youre now in the guerilla position to keep fucking with your shitlist if thats what you feel like doing. But people would control zones too, its just you have to work for it, and to me that work is tons of fun. Crushbone wasnt always full of people because people thought this was "griefing". People gathered there because it was the shit to play.

I would play my alts all the time, really. Id play my 58 shaman too but im guessing my time would be split 75/25 between my Sham/lowbies.

Of course nobody gives a fuck about trying to get pvp going on lowbie zones, because it will never pick up. Thats part of why I dont like the ruleset. On rallos, youd start a fight say in HHK. Youd kill the guy, and it was pretty certain he was gonna come back for second and thirds. So while youre hanging around there for the guy to come back, more people show up, soon enough the zone is full of people fucking around on a pvp session.

Here you have the exact opposite. You kill some guy and he scoots and thats your pvp session right there. People arent just gonna hang around and backlog PVE grind, so PVP never really picks up in a zone. If youre on the shit end of the twink stick as someone starting out, and you have to leave a zone each time a twink fucks with you instead of trying to get payback against him, i can see how this can make someone never log back in again.

The events would be awesome with no xp loss. It would draw players like a magnet for hours of fun time since people arent thinking about backlogging PVE grind. The Blackburrow event was cool, but we tried once, Nihi got bigger numbers in there, and that was it, end of event. Lots of time running, getting together, porting, just to try once and quit. Without xp loss there would have been alot more trying to stop Nihi from downing event mobs (fun pvp), noobs having high levels around for buffs, etc... It makes me think about eve, such long preparations for such a small amount of time spent actually pvping. Like you spend 20 minutes gathering, buffing Andis (lol) and walking to KC for the other guys to just gate, plug and lose one straggler because they dont wanna eat xp death. There is little actual pvping, thats fucking boring to me. Thats a huge difference from what was my classic Rallos experience.

I thoroughly explained around page 22 i think all the benefits having no xp loss at end game would bring to the server. In 2 words, more fun.

[Faerie Blossom]

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody called it bindrushing on Rallos. It was just the regular order of things that youd find a spot in the forest close to the CB entrance and bind there for your session of PVP. There was no "bindrushing", youd just play there for hours, thats what the ruleset encouraged. I mean there was that if you really wanna call it that, but ive never heard people complain about it that way. PVP would happen so much that you had what id call archenemies. When the player Castback on Rallos was in my zone, i knew id have to fend him off while PVEing/put PVE on hold until he logged off or till he moved elsewhere. I didnt think back then OH DAMM IT, I HAVE TO PVP, BUT MY GRINDING WAS SO FUN!!! Id get killed or kill him, then smoke a bowl and get ready for more pvp. Sometimes wed track him to his bind point and make him camp, thats a gameplay facet youll not experience much here because people quit after the first death.

Honestly i dont see bindrushing happening alot at high levels because of trackers. If youre being stupid and binding too close to the group youre trying to fuck with, they will find your bind point and make you camp. There needs to be distance, medding between each death, so you can hardly call this "rushing". Thats the problem with "contested camps" too, there is not much contesting. Somebody shows up with a bigger roster than you and you gate out/plug. If a group of 4 sees an opportunity to engage 8 people pveing, as it is now, it probably wont happen. Without xp loss, they might try a couple of times because its fun to try. Same story with 15 people fucking with a 35 man raid. As it is now, they just wont try, the camp contestation is lacking, really. Like swyft explained a couple of posts up, you can still hold camps, you just have to approach it differently and think/work for it instead of EZmode landing a zerg on top of any camp and winning by sheer numbers.

Its such a blast to play guerilla pvp. Thats why i was so excited to have a pvp server again, until i figured out about the xp loss in pvp, which fundamentally changes the nature of the server (from what was my fun Rallos classic experience, anyway).

Its king of the hill mode. Sometimes you get the upper hand, your buddies are online and your shitlist are the ones who are trying to guerilla fuck up your pve session. Then your buddies log, his buddies show up, and youre now in the guerilla position to keep fucking with your shitlist if thats what you feel like doing. But people would control zones too, its just you have to work for it, and to me that work is tons of fun. Crushbone wasnt always full of people because people thought this was "griefing". People gathered there because it was the shit to play.

I would play my alts all the time, really. Id play my 58 shaman too but im guessing my time would be split 75/25 between my Sham/lowbies.

Of course nobody gives a fuck about trying to get pvp going on lowbie zones, because it will never pick up. Thats part of why I dont like the ruleset. On rallos, youd start a fight say in HHK. Youd kill the guy, and it was pretty certain he was gonna come back for second and thirds. So while youre hanging around there for the guy to come back, more people show up, soon enough the zone is full of people fucking around on a pvp session.

Here you have the exact opposite. You kill some guy and he scoots and thats your pvp session right there. People arent just gonna hang around and backlog PVE grind, so PVP never really picks up in a zone. If youre on the shit end of the twink stick as someone starting out, and you have to leave a zone each time a twink fucks with you instead of trying to get payback against him, i can see how this can make someone never log back in again.

The events would be awesome with no xp loss. It would draw players like a magnet for hours of fun time since people arent thinking about backlogging PVE grind. The Blackburrow event was cool, but we tried once, Nihi got bigger numbers in there, and that was it, end of event. Lots of time running, getting together, porting, just to try once and quit. Without xp loss there would have been alot more trying to stop Nihi from downing event mobs (fun pvp), noobs having high levels around for buffs, etc... It makes me think about eve, such long preparations for such a small amount of time spent actually pvping. Like you spend 20 minutes gathering, buffing Andis (lol) and walking to KC for the other guys to just gate, plug and lose one straggler because they dont wanna eat xp death. There is little actual pvping, thats fucking boring to me. Thats a huge difference from what was my classic Rallos experience.

I thoroughly explained around page 22 i think all the benefits having no xp loss at end game would bring to the server. In 2 words, more fun.

Thanks for your thoughts on this. On VZ we always scooted when killed, and I never felt there was a lack of PvP. I agree that exp loss should be removed, and maybe this server could benefit from bindrushing because there are so few people to fight anyway. It's going to be interesting playing here; I wonder what sort of player I should be... :P

I think whatever xp bonus there is in place now should be removed, and BIG xp bonuses should be added in for groups. Like a group of 6 people should have maybe a 300% xp bonus. Someone needs to think about the poor melees [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Swyft [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And I'm sorry Sirkin as a member of Darkenbane the number 1 pvp guild of all time on Sullon Zek, we never considered pvp fighting over spawns that's blue talk.

oh thats quite alright, because i never considered SZ a pvp server, or really anything other than a cesspool of bads that couldnt hack it without training on VZ, RZ, or TZ

Originally Posted by Tradesonred [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im not sure if i should be optimistic or not.
Sirken says xp loss is getting looked into but at the same time keeps saying if i want a server like Rallos, i should look into another game. Sirken is really off the mark with his "no purpose to pvping for nothing", theres a reason why zones like Blackburrow and Crushbone were always buzzing with pvp activity on Rallos, because it was pure fun. You have to stop seeing this as griefing that will make people quit the server, its the opposite. People will be trippin balls, smoking bowls having fun pvping all nite on their alts and shit. < Shit's classic.

You guys should just forget this "Whatever goes in, stays" stuff IMO. We can take 2 weeks off completely removing xp loss as a trial basis to see if everybody is enjoying themselves more. I would announce a 2 week trial period with a temporary xp bonus and watch the population skyrocket as word to mouth spreads about how fun the server has become. Id go play my lowbie wiz on the side and ally with non-geared new fishes and play an anti-pk white knight type alt to help em crush twink griefers.

I havent played in a month but the minute i see a post that xp loss has been patched im logging back in.

dont put words in my mouth. i said R99 is not a RZ emulation, and i said that if you dont like grinding and leveling that EQ was not the game for you. also, i never said there was no purpose to PVP, what i said was that "there is no in game purpose to form roaming ganksquads" as in there's no in game reward (ie: no INGAME PURPOSE, because it was posted that Nihilum doesnt actively form roaming gangsquads), and as i ALSO said, the happiness/excitement/joy/whatever IS AN OUT OF GAME reward. i'll stop seeing it as griefing people off the server when it stops griefing people off the server. if they are enjoying it, they dont petition and then never log back in. the ones that do enjoy it, dont petition. newsflash, not everybody is "trippin balls" or "smokin bowls" as u so colorfully stated. there is no "whatever goes in stays in rule" dunno where u got that as countless things have changed and will continue to change (ie: added global ooc, lowered xp bonus, guard assist, xp loss on pvp, pvp text, having casters not repop with mana) and whatever else we have in the works. and the next time you post anything about BRing im suspending u for 3 days for trolling. ive addressed that already.

so in closing, i have no idea what your last post is based on.

reading comprehension can be your friend if you open your heart to it.

and im done responding to any more of your nonsense until you post something thats actually grounded in fact, and not just fabricated on a whim because you were mad/bad/sad on whatever day.

[Tradesonred]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

dont put words in my mouth. i said R99 is not a RZ emulation, and i said that if you dont like grinding and leveling that EQ was not the game for you. also, i never said there was no purpose to PVP, what i said was that "there is no in game purpose to form roaming ganksquads" as in there's no in game reward (ie: no INGAME PURPOSE, because it was posted that Nihilum doesnt actively form roaming gangsquads),

Yes i might have overstated how much i dislike PVE, because i dont mind some PVE, i can even enjoy it. My gripe is how much were forced to PVE for such a small % of time spent vs PVP, which is why im saying youre paraphrashing for "If you want a server like Rallos Zek, where PVP happened alot more than here, look for a new game." I explained this thoroughly in the part where i talk about how it takes 20mins of running/buffing to get to pvp and then it lasts 2 mins because people just dont wanna eat xp death.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

i'll stop seeing it as griefing people off the server when it stops griefing people off the server. if they are enjoying it, they dont petition and then never log back in. the ones that do enjoy it, dont petition. newsflash, not everybody is "trippin balls" or "smokin bowls" as u so colorfully stated.

Allrite, you talk about reading comprehension, thats a lack of reading comprehension right there. Im not saying people are enjoying themselves right now, im saying they hypothetically would if pvp picked up when xp loss in pvp is gone and you couldnt get xp griefed by twinks. Major difference, you misinterpreted me. Im trying to paint you a picture of how fun it was to play on Rallos and how we could hypothetically have the same thing happening here. Im actually agreeing that people are getting griefed off the server, its pretty clear from my recent posts i understood this. IM getting griefed off the server, not because im dying too much, but because im getting bored the fuck out.

As an example of that hypothetical situation, heres what id probably do on a no xp loss situation where the population is healthy enough to sustain non-empty zones at the lower brackets (which is what i think we would stimulate with this kind of server setup): I would start or join a guild in the Rallos Zek spirit on my alt, an anti-pk guild to protect the new blood that is coming to the server so they enjoy themselves more and make the population snowball into even bigger numbers because word is getting around that the server is fun as fuck to play on. I know theres a significant portion of the pop that gets its rocks off griefing noobs off the server, so i wouldnt run out of pvp targets to engage. Strictly a lowbie alt for a pure fun, pvp for hours thing.

Shit, im relogging right now after a month hiatus just by typing this, with the glimmer of hope that this is what we could potentially have [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

there is no "whatever goes in stays in rule" dunno where u got that as countless things have changed and will continue to change (ie: added global ooc, lowered xp bonus, guard assist, xp loss on pvp, pvp text, having casters not repop with mana) and whatever else we have in the works. and the next time you post anything about BRing im suspending u for 3 days for trolling. ive addressed that already.

Id fetch the Rogean quote if you werent so condescending and insulting, but youre right, things did change after the server went past beta. I meant to say it wouldnt hurt to loosen it up a bit so we can give it a try.

So, it comes to this. If you want to debate the pros and con if what you think would improve the server, ill paint this as trolling and ill ban you. Its regrettable that you wanna have the last word that bad in what should be a open discussion about what works or not. Because the server needs it. I see a bunch of troll posts every day and my attempt at giving an articulated, non-hostile feedback for improving the server is the one you choose to pick on? Im trying to make a solid case for ditching xp loss in case there is still some doubts about it, because i think itll exponentially help the server grow.

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

and im done responding to any more of your nonsense until you post something thats actually grounded in fact, and not just fabricated on a whim because you were mad/bad/sad on whatever day.

Again its pretty sad that youre trolling my input, being condescending and insulting just because you wanna get the last word. I made quite the effort to stay civil and provide some insights into what i think is wrong with the server instead of simply saying"God this server fucking sucks, fucking clueless devs and clueless ruleset" out of frustration, which im guilty of doing sometimes. Your dismissive attitude and response is not something id describe as a sign to people that the input they are taking the time to give is being thought about seriously. I might be hot headed and throw insults around once in a while, but im not the one who accepted the responsibility you have, you should be a bit more restrained than me [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.] For the server's sake.

I think what the server also needs is kind of an olive branch, with acknowledgements that mistakes were made on both sides / hard honest assessment of the last year and a half so that the broken player/dev communication can be re-instated and give the server a second chance of sorts. From devs AND players, the players who give a shit about having a fun EQ server to play on long term and not just think about your need to keep the status quo like it is so you can zerg your PVE loot at the detriment of a healthy and growing server population or how fun it is to grief people off the server. I think were at the make or break point of the server, which is why im bothering to type all these letters. I do think its awesome that some coders decided to make this server happen, or else i wouldnt bother.

Im trying to "atone for my sins" here with my input and being honest that my attitude is too belligerent sometimes.

[Swyft]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

oh thats quite alright, because i never considered SZ a pvp server, or really anything other than a cesspool of bads that couldnt hack it without training on VZ, RZ, or TZ

Almost every player on Sullon was from Rallos Zek and moved there after RZ was pretty much dead. The only one's that stayed were farmer's and raider's, not much fun playing on a server when all the competition is gone.

No one left because they couldn't hack it on Rallos which was definitely a harsher server than Tallon or Vallon they left because the pop died. Darkenbane was the most hated guild of all time on Rallos but since only Sullon had a leaderboard to show where everyone stood, I didn't feel the need to mention our accolades on Rallos.

I would also appreciate it if you left the debate on more of an intellectual level and refrained from the childish jeer's and snide remarks. Anyone here with half a brain should appreciate all the hard work and dedication you've shown trying to improve the server. All these suggestions are player's trying to help, so we don't see the server go back to just 30 Nihi farming pixels.

I guess I'm also confused we have an entire blue server which is focused on raiding/farming, so I don't know why the focus on red would be the exact same thing.