Classic SOE Overnerf

[Landis]

Originally Posted by Mady [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I'm very slow, so please be patient.

I have a SK alt that I realised, on making, had a -40% exp penalty. No problem.

But, from what i am understanding, I beileve, is that if I am invited to a group the entire group gets the 40% penalty.

Is this correct?

not exactly, as i understand it you take 40% more experience from a kill than everyone else.

for example if a mob gives 1000 exp and you are in a group with 5 people who have no penalty/bonus, then you take ~233 xp and everyone else gets ~153 (note an equal 6 way split would be ~167 each). the effect is the whole group levels at the same pace.

so each person gets an 8% penalty to make up for your 40%. correct me if i'm wrong please.

[Oogmog]

Originally Posted by Landis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

not exactly, as i understand it you take 40% more experience from a kill than everyone else.

for example if a mob gives 1000 exp and you are in a group with 5 people who have no penalty/bonus, then you take ~233 xp and everyone else gets ~153 (note an equal 6 way split would be ~167 each). the effect is the whole group levels at the same pace.

so each person gets an 8% penalty to make up for your 40%. correct me if i'm wrong please.

You have the right idea, but I'm pretty sure the hybrid will in fact still level SLIGHTLY slower but I could be wrong on that.

[Aeolwind]

I think a big thing people may have forgotten/never knew is that that penalty wasn't given to the hybrid, it was destroyed, gone for good. No one got that XP...well 'cept maybe the server.

[Landis]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a big thing people may have forgotten/never knew is that that penalty wasn't given to the hybrid, it was destroyed, gone for good. No one got that XP...well 'cept maybe the server.

that doesn't seem to agree with this

As such, a level 20 Troll SK, having more experience total than a Human Wizard of the same level, would get more experience from each kill, while the total experience for the kill was unchanged. Essentially, the SK would take part of the Wizard's share were everything distributed equally to begin with.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by Landis [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

that doesn't seem to agree with this

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/edit...rs_letter.html

Aye, from this we can deduce the original mechanism.

The various penalties were not reductions in experience gained, but were increases in the amount of xp required to level up. They were multiplicative. So, the oft mentioned Troll SK needed 68% more xp to level up. Put simply, if a human cleric needs 100xp to hit level 2, then the Troll SK needs 168xp to hit level 2.

If each of them were soloing, they would get the same amount of xp per kill. If, for instance, level 1 decaying skeletons give 4xp per kill (not a real value, but still useful for comparison), then the cleric would have to kill 25 to ding, while the Troll SK would have to kill 42 of them.

Before the changes mentioned in the letter above, when players were grouped, the xp from each mob was divided proportionally based on the total xp of each PC in the group. So, even if all the players were, say level 20, their xp totals might be very different... the Troll SKs total would be around 68% higher. The mob itself would provide a discrete amount of xp based on its level.

Say a level 20 mob was killed and yielded 400 xp. This total was then multiplied by the group bonus which was 1.02 to 1.1 depending on how many PCs were in the group. Let's say 4 PCs for the example, so the XP to be split by the party would be 400 x 1.06 = 424xp.

Then each player would receive a portion of that xp relative to their own xp versus the total xp in the group. So, let's say the 4 players involved were a human cleric, 2 human druids, and a troll SK, all level 20. The three human characters have no bonus or penalty, so their xp totals are likely very close to each other. I don't remember the exact value of xp needed to be level 20, but since it is all based on percentages, the exact number doesn't matter. Let's say the 3 human players have 85,000 ; 85,600 ; and 87,200 xp each, and that the Troll SK has 146,160 xp. That puts the total party xp at 403,960.

So, Human 1 has 21.04% of the group xp and will get .2104 x 424 = 89xp for the kill.

Human 2 has 21.19% of the group xp and will get .2119 x 424 = 90xp for the kill.

Human 3 has 21.58% of the group xp and will get .2158 x 424 = 92xp for the kill.

Lastly, the Troll has 36.18% of the xp and will get .3618 x 424 = 153xp for the kill.

If the troll had been another character with approximately equal xp total to the other characters... for example, another human druid at level 20, or perhaps a Troll SK at level 16ish, or a halfling rogue who was nearly 21 or 21... then each character would have gotten a roughly even split of .25 x 424 = 106xp. So, in this instance, by grouping with the Troll SK of even level instead of one of those other options, the other group members took around a 15% hit in xp gained per mob.

Obviously, that percentage hit will be different in different sized groups and depending on the number and total xp values of other characters. So, let's say for giggles that it takes 14,000 xp for a human cleric to get from level 20 to 21. Then it would take the party of 4, all human clerics and druids 132 kills of this example mob to level up. If the party consisted of the PCs in the above example, then the humans would take from around 152 to 157 kills to level, while the troll would need 154 kills to level.

This does exactly what the devs said it was designed to do. It lets friends who play together level together. Adding hybrids to a group will slow the other members down somewhat. I think this slow down is definitely smaller than the margin for slowdown from grouping with bad or lazy players though. Players of non-hybrids are still better off grouping with a known good or great player hybrid than with a mediocre or bad non-hybrid.

Also, note that no XP was created or destroyed from thin air before the changes mentioned in that dev letter.

[Olorin]

Originally Posted by Aeolwind [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think a big thing people may have forgotten/never knew is that that penalty wasn't given to the hybrid, it was destroyed, gone for good. No one got that XP...well 'cept maybe the server.

That makes perfect sense now -- when the server would ding, it would crash to go get its new spells [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

[Extunarian]

Originally Posted by Olorin [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That makes perfect sense now -- when the server would ding, it would crash to go get its new spells [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sweet! I can finally scribe "Endure DDOS!!"

[nilbog]

Originally Posted by Extunarian [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Sweet! I can finally scribe "Endure DDOS!!"

Unfortunately, Spell: Endure DDOS requires components to cast. Servers also need to have a "DDOS mitigation hardware" in their inventory. Similar to needing a Fire Beetle Eye to cast Spell: Flame Lick.

Furthermore, Spell: Endure DDOS is most effective when server already has at least 36%-41% bandwidth haste. Otherwise the top guilds do not want it.