EXP IS SO SLOW!

[Ihealyou]

I played classic for several years, and I never had a max level character. I started around velious, and was level 59 by the time the cap was 75. Granted, I probably played a lot less back then, and I was definitely a huge noob, but I always remembered leveling being a slow process. Having a main in the 30s or 40s didn't mean that you started playing 3 weeks ago.

I agree that leveling sucks now, but it feels a lot closer to how I remember it. Once people chill out, I'm sure SKs, pallies and bards will be fine getting groups. They all bring a lot to the table that a warrior or whatever cannot. I'd rather play with good players than a bunch of halfing warriors and rogues anyways.

The game may seem like a race to 50, but its really about the journey. I don't raid, so I barely play my 50 cleric anymore. Even the people who raid spend a lot of their time sitting around waiting for respawns. Its a lot more fun to kill crocs in oasis than it is to sit in EC showing off how leet your level 50 is.

[Smuuglie]

Originally Posted by Ihealyou [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Its a lot more fun to kill crocs in oasis than it is to sit in EC showing off how leet your level 50 is.

Thats what YOUUUUU think D:

[Danth]

I play hybrid characters exclusively. I support this change and wish it had been present since the server opened. It's hell trying to stay the same level as my friends with the broken system; at least now that won't be an issue. Leveling my Paladin to 50 was a constant headache, trying to stay roughly even with the wife's character. To heck with that, it wasn't fun, wasn't sensible, and wasn't classic. No advantages, just nuisance.

If it was up to me, I wouldn't have had those class/race penalties at all--they're dumb (I'd keep the good, throw away the bad)--but if they're going to be present, do 'em right. That's what the fixed experience setup does. The prior system was half-assed, neither logical *nor* classic, and as such--all bad, the worst of both sides.

Some groups won't take penalized races/classes due to that. Once again, a dumb feature of EQ, but it's classic. Still beats having to play half again as much as my friends to keep up (or worse, watching them have to kill themselves repeatedly).

Unfortunately this change, which should have been working from the start or very early on, is only being applied after ~9 months. I have mixed feelings on that, but I suppose 'better late than never'.

Danth

[mimixownzall]

Originally Posted by Danth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I play hybrid characters exclusively. I support this change and wish it had been present since the server opened. It's hell trying to stay the same level as my friends with the broken system; at least now that won't be an issue. Leveling my Paladin to 50 was a constant headache, trying to stay roughly even with the wife's character. To heck with that, it wasn't fun, wasn't sensible, and wasn't classic. No advantages, just nuisance.

If it was up to me, I wouldn't have had those class/race penalties at all--they're dumb (I'd keep the good, throw away the bad)--but if they're going to be present, do 'em right. That's what the fixed experience setup does. The prior system was half-assed, neither logical *nor* classic, and as such--all bad, the worst of both sides.

Some groups won't take penalized races/classes due to that. Once again, a dumb feature of EQ, but it's classic. Still beats having to play half again as much as my friends to keep up (or worse, watching them have to kill themselves repeatedly).

Unfortunately this change, which should have been working from the start or very early on, is only being applied after ~9 months. I have mixed feelings on that, but I suppose 'better late than never'.

Danth

So you want to go from watching your friends out level you to getting in no groups at all... Check. This is what will happen when word spreads around.

"hey, why does my exp seem so slow?"
"you grouped with a hybrid?"
"yes"
"that's your problem, shared group exp penalty"
"oh, I guess no more groups with hybrids in them"

[Goobles]

If I can recall correctly, paladin, ranger and sk penalties didn't apply to group exp rate - only individual xp rate.

[Combo]

Originally Posted by Goobles [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If I can recall correctly, paladin, ranger and sk penalties didn't apply to group exp rate - only individual xp rate.

They applied to groups in classic up til a Velious patch when everyone ran the math and figured out the absolutely ridiculous mechanic existed and called for Verant's heads on pikes. Then Verant said "you're right, this is stupid and it's causing hybrids to get passed over in groups since the group doesn't want its xp gimped." And so it changed.

I personally hate the mechanic and am spreading word about it on the server in hopes the same thing will happen here. It's silly, and just because it took until Velious for the change to happen doesn't mean the delay has to happen here. The change occured because people called Verant on its bullshit mechanic and they said "yeah you're right." Chronological order doesn't have to be sacrosanct -- keeping a mechanic in place that actively hurt the game by Verant's testimony seems to be putting the carriage before the horse.

I know the p99 staff doesn't do this for us (I'm not really sure why they do it, but I'm happy they do) and we don't pay them any kind of money outside of donations, so really they owe us absolutely nothing. But we as a playerbase want this to work. We're here because we don't want to see the mistakes of the past get repeated. And this setup was a mistake, as the creator of the game itself admitted.

People keep bringing up technical issues as a comparison for a reason -- the team seems to swing back and forth between a hard stand on chronological order of events and the elegant recreation of the Classic experience.

We as players care more about the latter than the former. We want a world without the PoK, where factions really matter, grouping is crucial, factions matter, and travel is a dangerous adventure. We want legit progression so we have time to enjoy each era of the trilogy as it evolved. We care about the "spirit." The fact that we can play in 1900x1200 and use number keys to cast spells and don't require a video card that uses the Glide API and can meditate without opening the book, which is really irrelevant since we're playing in 1900x1200 anyway, really doesn't bother the vast, vast majority of the playerbase. Some of these original ideas were just products of the time, some were just outright bloody stupid (a UI that takes up over half the screen = totally moronic, even for 1999).

The p99 dev team is split between the two goals, mostly because it's comprised of individuals doing their own thing and not quite working and communicating as one unit. This shitstorm started because one guy as an Ogre was outleveling his wife, a Dark Elf. The tables clearly needed to be fixed because they were wrong (off by one as it turned out) but while he was digging around, he found that Hybrids weren't gimping group XP. So he "fixed" it by chronological standards.

This "fix" does nothing to recreate the good aspects of the EQ Classic spirit. For instance, was anyone really angry that Rangers aren't (well, weren't) being shunned like they were in 1999-2001?

That's the whole point here, and why the technical stuff keeps getting brought up by players as a counter-point to this change. It doesn't *feel* right. It *feels* like a godawful decision, chronologically correct or not. Everyone knows that it's going to damage and divide the community in a way that something like a technical regression to forced 800x600 or 640x480 resolution and a UI that takes up 3/5ths of the screen would.

No one (except the real noobs) is asking for race or class XP tables to get removed. Rather, I think alot of people are up in arms about this issue because, as history showed, it's going to be actively detrimental to the community. Verant programmed this shared penalty and forgot about it. There was no malice or anything involved, they basically just copied over their AD&D campaign and custom GM rules and forgot about it.

In short, we know the effect that the original discovery of this mechanic had, and it simply was not a good one. The community was furious and four classes were suddenly relegated to the dustbin. The Ranger actually never really recovered.

I don't know. It just feels like you've recreated the Titanic for us to walk around and admire its original splendor, decadence, and design. Then you realized you forgot to put an iceberg in its way because, well, that's what happened to the original Titanic, right? It was an unmitigated disaster that no one in their right mind thought was a good thing, but hey, it happened, so it has to happen again.

You don't have to recreate mistakes out of blind adherence chronology. You're not going back and implementing bugs and exploits. You're not going to overlook ShowEQ and MacroQuest users because the technology wasn't there to detect their use in classic. You're making meta-game decisions all the time that aren't consistent with the real, buggy, exploitable classic version in order to improve quality of play for everyone, since, face it, cheating and exploiting and bugginess sucked and hurt the community. But, like it or not, those things were classic.

You can't go home again. Honestly, no one really wants to go home again. We want the home cooking, the familiarity, the friends, the fresh experiences and wonder. You're giving us those things. We love you for that. But then, out of the blue, you're slapping acne on our face and making our voices crack because "that's the way it was."

There's more to this than a innocent "fix" to make things more "classic." You're throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

[mitic]

since exp penalties are STILL in game i want spell books in front of my face now too so those casters especialy necros and mages have some incentive to play their classes since hybrids are OP rite now with their neg exp...

sk, pal, and especialy rng are way to overpowered since they can solo moss-snakes at lvl 50...do it devs!

equal rights for all, rite?

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by mitic [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

since exp penalties are STILL in game i want spell books in front of my face now too so those casters especialy necros and mages have some incentive to play their classes since hybrids are OP rite now with their neg exp...

Spellbooks are client.UI based there superstar. Care to try again?

[Qaedain]

Originally Posted by Combo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

They applied to groups in classic up til a Velious patch when everyone ran the math and figured out the absolutely ridiculous mechanic existed and called for Verant's heads on pikes. Then Verant said "you're right, this is stupid and it's causing hybrids to get passed over in groups since the group doesn't want its xp gimped." And so it changed.

SNIP...

Fantastic post. Seriously. Probably one of the best I've ever read on a forum.

[Bumamgar]

Originally Posted by Combo [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The p99 dev team is split between the two goals, mostly because it's comprised of individuals doing their own thing and not quite working and communicating as one unit. This shitstorm started because one guy as an Ogre was outleveling his wife, a Dark Elf. The tables clearly needed to be fixed because they were wrong (off by one as it turned out) but while he was digging around, he found that Hybrids weren't gimping group XP. So he "fixed" it by chronological standards.

No changes were made without full discussion with the rest of the dev team including Nilbog. The p99 dev team work and communicate as one unit quite well, thank you.