Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by KotBK [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Aenarie please read what you type, you tell others not to base assumptions about you or your guild then that is all you yourself are making of others.

Who are you to say all these other guilds aren't or haven't been making "some kind of effort"? You have no idea as you aren't even fully aware of what your own guild does 24/7 or what each member believes. Please just be quiet or bring something intellectual to the table other than blatant hypocrisy.

I agree with some of what Aenarie is saying. There isn't much effort being made by these guilds to get targets. Yes I understand they don't want to have to do any tracking, organizing, etc because they think that it won't pay off, but honestly like others have said if you don't put in some effort no one is going to take you seriously. The only guild outside of tmo/fe that I've seen tracking lately was divinity a few sevs ago. I'm sure others have done it, but that's just the only guild i've seen doing anything.

If you want some of these mobs put forth some effort during your guilds best raiding hours and I think this would be received much better. That still covers most of the arguments being made about not wanting to batphone at 3 am, poopsock, camp chars etc.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I agree with some of what Aenarie is saying. There isn't much effort being made by these guilds to get targets. Yes I understand they don't want to have to do any tracking, organizing, etc because they think that it won't pay off, but honestly like others have said if you don't put in some effort no one is going to take you seriously. The only guild outside of tmo/fe that I've seen tracking lately was divinity a few sevs ago. I'm sure others have done it, but that's just the only guild i've seen doing anything.

If you want some of these mobs put forth some effort during your guilds best raiding hours and I think this would be received much better. That still covers most of the arguments being made about not wanting to batphone at 3 am, poopsock, camp chars etc.

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.

the only mob that has had anything close to your assumption happen since the patch was inny, and even that was small scale with like single groups sitting up in hate still pulling exp/armor mobs.

again even if you only did some tracking during your guild's prime hours it is showing some effort which isn't being shown now by most of the guilds asking for this opportunity.

[AenarieFenninRo]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It just gets escalated. Smaller guilds could track and campout for Sev and then from there it turns into people standing on the spawn point waiting to pull, then it turns into raids sitting on the spawn point. The level of stupidity doesn't stop, and that's assuming you can even catch a spawn in your guild's window of opportunity and get the pull before TMO or FE and get your raid force online to kill the pull in under 2 minutes. Again, it's all preposterous.

Did you tell anyone in TMO for FE that you were doing that?

How do we know you're camping out for the mob and are intent on engaging it?

My basic state has been, let others know, this still holds true.

For as much as we bitch about each other in R&F, I am sure that if someone came to FE or TMO and said "hey, we would like to try Sev this week if it spawns between 5pm and 9pm" TMO and FE could have a civil discussion with each other about it.

[arsenalpow]

Honestly fuck both of you. I've spent countless hours tracking for mobs, updating windows, camping out characters, rallying the troops, and boosting morale when it's all for naught. I've watched multiple guilds shatter under the weight of what equates to chemical warfare between the infiltration of guild forums, the posting of RL pictures, and hemorhagging members to the zergs. Raiding on this server is fundamentally broken. Both of you are basically saying "try harder" when everyone knows that means be more like TMO and FE. This isn't a job for most people, it's a fucking 13 old emulated Everquest server.

The barrier of entry to raiding is staggering and even when you do eventually reach the goal of VP there's always the boogeyman of training to deal with. Here's a PSA to anyone new on this server that wants to attain raid loot, join TMO or FE. Be prepared to log out your character at a designated target for days at a time and have the availability to log in 24 hours a day to earfuck said target with 40 other guildmates while dodging the trains and shenanigans of the rival guild. That's what raiding on P99 is. It's not competition, it's not fun, it's attrition. Get used to it or find a new game.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Honestly fuck both of you. I've spent countless hours tracking for mobs, updating windows, camping out characters, rallying the troops, and boosting morale when it's all for naught. I've watched multiple guilds shatter under the weight of what equates to chemical warfare between the infiltration of guild forums, the posting of RL pictures, and hemorhagging members to the zergs. Raiding on this server is fundamentally broken. Both of you are basically saying "try harder" when everyone knows that means be more like TMO and FE. This isn't a job for most people, it's a fucking 13 old emulated Everquest server.

The barrier of entry to raiding is staggering and even when you do eventually reach the goal of VP there's always the boogeyman of training to deal with. Here's a PSA to anyone new on this server that wants to attain raid loot, join TMO or FE. Be prepared to log out your character at a designated target for days at a time and have the availability to log in 24 hours a day to earfuck said target with 40 other guildmates while dodging the trains and shenanigans of the rival guild. That's what raiding on P99 is. It's not competition, it's not fun, it's attrition. Get used to it or find a new game.

This isn't F&R pal. Keep it constructive or start a new thread. I'm not posting my opinion of you anywhere in here because i'm keeping in mind that this could be for the better of the server.

[arsenalpow]

Originally Posted by maverixdamighty [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

This isn't F&R pal. Keep it constructive or start a new thread. I'm not posting my opinion of you anywhere in here because i'm keeping in mind that this could be for the better of the server.

Except you've only stated that you don't believe the smaller guilds "do enough" to warrant a share of raid targets, this is because as stated before the barrier of entry is staggering. For you or TMO enough would be exactly how you currently function as a raid guild. For BDA enough for is hunting in planes when raid targets are in window and periodically pushing for targets when it suits us and avoiding Trak like the plague because its by far the most toxic target to push for. For other guilds like Div, Taken, or Full Circle it's even less than that, they have a relatively regular raid schedule and suits them.

The mindset from TMO has always been put up or shut up, I absolutely know that FE is ok with a server rotation, TMO is and has always been the holdup to any rotation since IB departed.

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Except you've only stated that you don't believe the smaller guilds "do enough" to warrant a share of raid targets, this is because as stated before the barrier of entry is staggering. For you or TMO enough would be exactly how you currently function as a raid guild. For BDA enough for is hunting in planes when raid targets are in window and periodically pushing for targets when it suits us and avoiding Trak like the plague because its by far the most toxic target to push for. For other guilds like Div, Taken, or Full Circle it's even less than that, they have a relatively regular raid schedule and suits them.

The mindset from TMO has always been put up or shut up, I absolutely know that FE is ok with a server rotation, TMO is and has always been the holdup to any rotation since IB departed.

Ya that's my opinion but i'm not the one making the decision for either guild. Some effort for me does not equal the way tmo/fe currently operate as you are assuming. I understand BDA used to be a raiding guild and you used to put in a ton of time doing tracking, organizing, etc but you also used to get kills out of it. I'm just saying from my point of view very little effort is being put in doing anything close to that anymore. I listed the one example i could think of with div doing sev, but problem with sev is we have like 6-7 warriors still needing green scales and sev has dropped them like 1 times in the last 6-7 kills. If we didn't need the scales he would not be a priority target IMO. Comparing TMO/FE in terms of listing out priority targets isn't doable because TMO has already farmed those mobs for a lengthy amount of time while FE is just now starting to see the affect of putting in the time/effort to compete for them.

[arsenalpow]

Proposed Rotation for any mob.

TMO, FE, BDA, Div, Taken, FC, FV

You have 15 minutes (or longer, can be tweaked depending on target) to engage from spawn or it falls to the next person in the rotation (or FTE, whatever)

This means that TMO and FE would still get the lionshare of targets since any mob that doesn't spawn during prime time would be most likely skipped by the smaller guilds but it still provides an opportunity for those same guilds to get an attempt in whereas before they'd just get steamrolled/leapfrogged.

[uygi]

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

...log in 24 hours a day to earfuck said target with 40 other guildmates...

Ahh, the term earfuck is alive and well. My legacy in BDA is intact!

Originally Posted by arsenalpow [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

If someone guilded with me does something that doesn't align with how we do things then they get to find a new guild. It's called having standards.

I know you try to take the high road, and I appreciate that, but at a certain point you joined the bandwagon Chest. I totally agree that there was no choice, but let's be realistic; you don't have a zero-tolerance policy for FTE sniping, sitting on spawn points, or training in VP. BDA just doesn't often bother to do any of those things any more. I still <3 you!

Originally Posted by finalgrunt [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Smaller guilds have tried in the past to track, and mobilize. And even poopsock. More than once. Problem is, it's been proven to be ineffective.

Not true. As I said before, small guilds have had variously successful efforts in the past. Back when IB and DA got all the targets and VD and TMO were the rough equivalent of BDA/FC/FV-type guilds, VD (yes, FEVDA!) and TMO joined forces to beat out the top guilds for an Innoruuk. I was there on Myuharin and Zeelot and I worked together and enjoyed killing what was a server first for both guilds. Ask Drakakade how floored he was to get an Earth Staff in like January 2011.

Then there are raiding partnerships/alliances/agreements. VD did this the most. When one of the top guilds needed muscle, VD formed mutually beneficial agreements with both DA and IB/TR. Ironically, we were on both sides of that divide, separated by only like 5 months. But VD got tons of loot out of both arrangements, and FE has a lot of loot and keys (and TMO has a decent amount as well) from VDs successes. If, hypothetically, TMO starts getting swept under the rug, or needs more people, or whatever, they would probably be happy to enter into an agreement (FE is newer, freshly growing and probably a lot less likely). In the past TMO has absorbed guilds, but it doesn't have to work that way as evidenced by VD which maintained its independence until the day it died.