Asking a favor from the two top guilds on the server

[Jarnauga]

Talendor
Gorenaire
Efreeti cycle
vox/naggy
Faydedar maybe ?

These are pretty much useless to FE/TMO. Let's start with these ones and see how it goes.. I'd suggest that the leaders of the "little" guilds speak of the terms together on vent or something.

Something along the lines of: 2 hours upon pop to kill the target or you're losing your spot, if you wipe you lose your spot. if you wipe 3 times in a row on the same mob you just lose your spot for like 3 rounds..

[Splorf22]

Originally Posted by Jarnauga [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Talendor
Gorenaire
Efreeti cycle
vox/naggy
Faydedar maybe ?

These are pretty much useless to FE/TMO. Let's start with these ones and see how it goes.. I'd suggest that the leaders of the "little" guilds speak of the terms together on vent or something.

Something along the lines of: 2 hours upon pop to kill the target or you're losing your spot, if you wipe you lose your spot. if you wipe 3 times in a row on the same mob you just lose your spot for like 3 rounds..

I think you have a reasonable idea for rotation rules but you are missing a huge element: time of day. For example I am pretty confident if we set up a batphone the A-Team could kill Talendor at about 5PM-1AM EST. Outside those times, we probably can't. BDA probably still has enough people that they could kill the weaker dragons 24/7 but I would say FV, FC, Divinity, and Taken probably could not, although hey, I could be wrong. Fay in particular is a 1 group mob if you have the right classes/gear. Gorenaire on the other hand I think would be almost have to be a combined effort.

[Sirken]

Originally Posted by Splorf22 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I think you have a reasonable idea for rotation rules but you are missing a huge element: time of day. For example I am pretty confident if we set up a batphone the A-Team could kill Talendor at about 5PM-1AM EST. Outside those times, we probably can't. BDA probably still has enough people that they could kill the weaker dragons 24/7 but I would say FV, FC, Divinity, and Taken probably could not, although hey, I could be wrong. Fay in particular is a 1 group mob if you have the right classes/gear. Gorenaire on the other hand I think would be almost have to be a combined effort.

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

[Lanuven]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

This is RNF material here..terrible idea.

[finalgrunt]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

If players want to compete with the top guild(s), they can just join them. I wonder sometimes if you understand how unattractive the raid scene can be for some players, who don't see it as a classic experience. Log lawyering, GM lobbying, huge variance meaning having to track for endless hours etc., being able to log on a computer seconds away from a batphone (and thus having some alts to play).

We can all agree here that it will not change. And asking top guilds to enter a rotation seems doomed to fail (at least with the current protagonists). That is not my request.

I'm just asking the top guilds to open a window, the said week every X weeks, so smaller guilds can raid more like they want, and not how they would be forced to.

It would still leave a overwhelming amount of time for the top guilds to compete for 90% and more of the loot. Really, it's not asking for much. And yes, it's giving away on purpose some of the loot. But I know for a fact it would appease many smaller guilds, which would have their fun by just attempting these targets every now and then. That's all they need. Give little, for maximum benefits.

And by doing this, all the rotation discussion will be catered to smaller guilds, which will decide how to handle that week.

As people pointed out, start with some of the dragons. I know many people in FE would agree, it comes down to TMO to shake the hand on this.

Something like:

Talendor
Gorenaire
vox/naggy
Faydedar
Dracoliche

One week every X weeks. You decide.

(and this may or may not create some drama, which will entertain you in RnF for hours. You know you want it).

[Lazortag]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

...

Being part of a guild means you can exclude people you'd prefer not to be guilded with. One of our policies for example is that we don't allow people who've been banned for MQ/SEQ. So if we merged with 3 other guilds, we'd have to unconditionally let in a bunch of players who we'd otherwise reject, and allow them to skip our app processes. I'm not trying to sound elitist, I'm sure that the aforementioned guilds wouldn't want to lower their standards either. Your suggestion is patently ridiculous otherwise it would have been tried already.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

So if the raid scene makes merging necessary to compete, is it the smaller guilds who are at fault, or is it the raid scene that is flawed? Casual guilds have many players in them who were in top raid guilds on Live. It's not that we're incapable of competing or somehow inept at this game, it's that this is a different version of the game we all played, and in this version, the cost of competing at TMO/FE's level is unreasonable.

(I'm predicting a response that accuses me of being a socialist, wanting rotations on every mob, and/or of wanting the variance removed entirely when none of those were mentioned in my post)

[maverixdamighty]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Being part of a guild means you can exclude people you'd prefer not to be guilded with. One of our policies for example is that we don't allow people who've been banned for MQ/SEQ. So if we merged with 3 other guilds, we'd have to unconditionally let in a bunch of players who we'd otherwise reject, and allow them to skip our app processes. I'm not trying to sound elitist, I'm sure that the aforementioned guilds wouldn't want to lower their standards either. Your suggestion is patently ridiculous otherwise it would have been tried already.



So if the raid scene makes merging necessary to compete, is it the smaller guilds who are at fault, or is it the raid scene that is flawed? Casual guilds have many players in them who were in top raid guilds on Live. It's not that we're incapable of competing or somehow inept at this game, it's that this is a different version of the game we all played, and in this version, the cost of competing at TMO/FE's level is unreasonable.

(I'm predicting a response that accuses me of being a socialist, wanting rotations on every mob, and/or of wanting the variance removed entirely when none of those were mentioned in my post)

I know you pretty well and you know my stance on this when I was in divinity and even now. The only difference here and on live is all this extra built in variance crap. On live the vast majority of servers had top guilds similar to tmo/fe that monopolized the spawns they wanted. This opened up for other guilds when new content opened up. IMO that is the only thing that is going to help this server.

[jkfranklin]

Originally Posted by Sirken [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

why dont all these smaller guilds just merge to form a competitive guild, as opposed to hoping a mob pops within your guilds peak play time. for example u said 5pm-1am you'd be good to go, but not outside those hours.

so maybe time to think outside the box? if FC, FV, Div, and Taken were to merge, you would easily be able to start competing on just about any mob.

people will argue that they shouldnt have to merge to compete. and i will simply disagree because its not true. every top guild goes through mergers on their way to the top.

doing things the way you want, and doing things the way things need to be done to compete, are not always the same path. and theres a very good chance at some point you have to decide which of those paths you are going to embark on, because most times its not possible to do both.

And these guilds are years behind in gear because the content is way behind to where these guilds alts are geared out. Your solution is a 100 man zerg guild. Well played.

[Vianna]

I came to this server because it was advertised as a classic server. I started a cleric because it is what I first played on live. All the way through as I was leveling in gfay, crushbone,unrest,and mistmoore the game was a pretty good representation of what I remembered and it was fun to play just like I remembered. I worked hard with several close guildies to grow Full Circle so we could simply get into planes and start getting people geared.... A lot of non-selfish people worked their tails off to get us there too. Still I was having the time of my life playing the game again I enjoyed .. I mean it was truly a joy to finally break through fear and hate with low numbers and start gearing up. We grew fast after that. Numbers swelled and before we knew it we had a player base of really skilled players for the most part who knew their classes well. We were excited at the prospects.....


That is where the classic experience stopped. Huge Variance windows .....Non-stop tracking of mobs....Bat-phones bringing forth zerg forces flooding the zones we were in when mobs spawned....It was like a butchered representation of what everquest was like to me and a lot of others. There was no shot to get a mob unless you did 1 or 2 things...... Do what they are doing or wait till a mob was late in window and sit there at it. We personally are a casual guild so there just was never gonna be enough people that wanted to spend their time on a tracker for the 5 or 6 hours they get to play and not be guaranteed of seeing the mob they are tracking... when they would rather be doing something fun with their time. So we chose the former route. We watched windows of mobs and started seeing which ones we had the force to kill and we took people to them. The next patch that came out took that option away with extended windows.

So now we are back to the point of trying to compete for mobs people need for their epics with casual players. A few months ago we were discussing shortening variance and having simulated patches. Instead we have a possible longer variance on raid mobs with no further discussion on simulated patch days. It makes you stop to ask yourself why are we intentionally going in a direction in the raid scene that alienates most of your server population from it ? I would be all for a rotation with any guild honestly. For just about any mob. Just to have fun attempting them again. I know there can't be a full sense of success for anyone when it turns into an FTE contest. It wasn't for me when I was there and we got Inny. It just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

I think I am with Splorf on this one. The most fun I have in EQ and ever had in EQ was raiding with the bare minimum and seeing if you could get it done. There is no challenge to the game when you send 40 people at a mob to zerg it to death. It gets the loot fast sure, but I read TMO say they enjoyed raiding to raid.... Not for the loot in another thread. Does TMO or FE honestly enjoy having 30 people from each side zerging a mob to death that lives a grand total of 10 seconds and poses no challenge at all ? I dunno I guess I am different, I enjoy games for the challenge they represent. There simply is no challenge besides a race on this server if you want to compete and you have to be ready to race 24 hours a day. So I support the OP in their endeavor.... Simply because it moves away from Alienating the largest part of the server.

[Hailto]

Originally Posted by Vianna [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I came to this server because it was advertised as a classic server. I started a cleric because it is what I first played on live. All the way through as I was leveling in gfay, crushbone,unrest,and mistmoore the game was a pretty good representation of what I remembered and it was fun to play just like I remembered. I worked hard with several close guildies to grow Full Circle so we could simply get into planes and start getting people geared.... A lot of non-selfish people worked their tails off to get us there too. Still I was having the time of my life playing the game again I enjoyed .. I mean it was truly a joy to finally break through fear and hate with low numbers and start gearing up. We grew fast after that. Numbers swelled and before we knew it we had a player base of really skilled players for the most part who knew their classes well. We were excited at the prospects.....


That is where the classic experience stopped. Huge Variance windows .....Non-stop tracking of mobs....Bat-phones bringing forth zerg forces flooding the zones we were in when mobs spawned....It was like a butchered representation of what everquest was like to me and a lot of others. There was no shot to get a mob unless you did 1 or 2 things...... Do what they are doing or wait till a mob was late in window and sit there at it. We personally are a casual guild so there just was never gonna be enough people that wanted to spend their time on a tracker for the 5 or 6 hours they get to play and not be guaranteed of seeing the mob they are tracking... when they would rather be doing something fun with their time. So we chose the former route. We watched windows of mobs and started seeing which ones we had the force to kill and we took people to them. The next patch that came out took that option away with extended windows.

So now we are back to the point of trying to compete for mobs people need for their epics with casual players. A few months ago we were discussing shortening variance and having simulated patches. Instead we have a possible longer variance on raid mobs with no further discussion on simulated patch days. It makes you stop to ask yourself why are we intentionally going in a direction in the raid scene that alienates most of your server population from it ? I would be all for a rotation with any guild honestly. For just about any mob. Just to have fun attempting them again. I know there can't be a full sense of success for anyone when it turns into an FTE contest. It wasn't for me when I was there and we got Inny. It just leaves a bitter taste in your mouth.

I think I am with Splorf on this one. The most fun I have in EQ and ever had in EQ was raiding with the bare minimum and seeing if you could get it done. There is no challenge to the game when you send 40 people at a mob to zerg it to death. It gets the loot fast sure, but I read TMO say they enjoyed raiding to raid.... Not for the loot in another thread. Does TMO or FE honestly enjoy having 30 people from each side zerging a mob to death that lives a grand total of 10 seconds and poses no challenge at all ? I dunno I guess I am different, I enjoy games for the challenge they represent. There simply is no challenge besides a race on this server if you want to compete and you have to be ready to race 24 hours a day. So I support the OP in their endeavor.... Simply because it moves away from Alienating the largest part of the server.

The whole challenge IS the competition, anyone can figure out how to kill Trakanon after the game has been out 13 years. I love Full Circle and i had a great time with you guys, but you have to realize there is no solution to make everyone happy, unless we just want to instance every encounter.