First Aggro + 15

[girth]

I got some 'math' for you as well.

+/- 48
+/- 6

See the difference? Apparently not.

Even with the current system, anything over +/- 12 hours is kinda stupid.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I got some 'math' for you as well.

+/- 48
+/- 6

See the difference? Apparently not.

Fun fact. You can't camp for more than 100% of the time you play.

See how +/- 48 hours would exceed 100% and therefore be impossible? Apparently not.

The only reason math was ever brought into this was the number you admit you pulled out of your ass.

Remind me again of how anything you "pull out of your ass" is productive to the conversation?

[girth]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Fun fact. You can't camp for more than 100% of the time you play.

See how +/- 48 hours would exceed 100% and therefore be impossible? Apparently not.

Originally Posted by girth

By your same math, wouldn't the current situation of like 90+ hours variance mean we camp more than 100% of the week?

Pretty sure I understand that and that's why I called out your terrible mathematical debunking of OP's solution.

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Remind me again of how anything you "pull out of your ass" is productive to the conversation?

You could always just learn to read and go back and try to understand the main point of my post that got you started on math. You think the act of camping itself is the problem, even though the only other way to do it basically is a rotation, which is way worse.

Like I said on that post that you ignored and went on a tirade about math making this a bad proposal, the problem is the amount of camping needed currently, +/- 48 or whatever it is at the moment is beyond stupid. Obviously you should realize at this point you cannot deter the camping guilds from going the extra mile to get their raid bosses, so to think that making the spawn variance longer will do so is just well...stupid.

Even if you don't accept this proposal, shorten the variance which was put in because of time zone differences unless I'm mistaken, even though +/- 12 would just as easily do the same thing. So would +/- 6.

I'm not sure you are in the raiding scene atm Asta, and I just got into it myself, but I can tell you that camping most likely will not change due to supply and demand. What needs to change is the amount of camping that the absurd spawn variances force us to do. Lower spawn variances and removal of the first to 15 in a zone will help tremendously to alleviate this. Those 2 reasons and the no rotation thing is why this is the best proposal.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

By your same math, wouldn't the current situation of like 90+ hours variance mean we camp more than 100% of the week?

The math presupposes that you have a maximum of 168 hours available in the week. Why? Because unless you have a wonderful way to dilate time that's how it works. Any value beyond the 100% is irrelevant because it doesn't exist. Any comparison then will have to be drawn to this 100% value, rather than your amazing week with time dilation.

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You think the act of camping itself is the problem, even though the only other way to do it basically is a rotation, which is way worse.

Subjective argument, although people including myself would agree that a simple straight rotation as a solution is probably not desirable.

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Obviously you should realize at this point you cannot deter the camping guilds from going the extra mile to get their raid bosses, so to think that making the spawn variance longer will do so is just well...stupid.

Please find exactly where I said making the spawn variance longer would fix anything. Note: It's going to be tough because I never said it anywhere.

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Even if you don't accept this proposal, shorten the variance which was put in because of time zone differences unless I'm mistaken, even though +/- 12 would just as easily do the same thing. So would +/- 6.

Nowhere did I state that I was against lowering the variance, simply that doing so would not put an end to camping, rather it would change the nature of camping. (15 people constantly camping with some afks in there vs entire raid groups at the shorter +/- variance window that will also have those same afks)

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

camping most likely will not change due to supply and demand.

The only way to end camping is to have it offer no absolute advantage when it comes to the determination of who gets the target. Since this would require either a straight rotation or a dynamic rotation like SK, and the raiding populace seems intent on curbstomping any sort of solution or compromise I think it's fair to say it will never end.

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What needs to change is the amount of camping that the absurd spawn variances force us to do. Lower spawn variances

Opinions on switching to a flat +variance rather than a +/-?
What this means is I think a +0 to 12 would be better than a +/-6.
This would ensure it still moves around the clock to accommodate all time zones, where shorter +/- variance might not be as dynamic.

I definitely would like to see CT repop fear. I think that'd cut back some on PoF camping while making breaks more frequent.

The pathing trash in PoH isn't really an issue to either campers or a tracker since a trash clear will remedy it and then you just have to watch the clock and make sure people are there to clear respawns. I can't remember if Inno repops Hate or not (leaning towards him not), or if this would even be a reasonable solution to implement even if he didn't.

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Those 2 reasons and the no rotation thing is why I think this is the best proposal.

Fixed to represent subjectivity.

Interested in hearing peoples' comments on possible planes changes and flat +var.

[Lazortag]

I don't know if this has been suggested, but why not put some of the dragons/gods on an overlapping timer so that no guild could possibly camp all of them at once?

[MrSquirrelbane]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know if this has been suggested, but why not put some of the dragons/gods on an overlapping timer so that no guild could possibly camp all of them at once?

Server gets more and more level 50s every day. Therefore the top two guilds on the server get more apps every day. Its conceivable (but not ideal) that either DA/IB could recruit enough to run more than one full raid force at a time. *shudder* At the thought of having a guild that size hit a single target. The internet as a whole is in better shape these days and might be able to handle it. I wonder if EQ's netcode could?

Fuck megazerg guilds though. Used to have a guild on Solusek Ro that would hit Velious targets with 100+ people. More often than not they'd lag themselves out and wipe, but they still tried.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by Lazortag [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know if this has been suggested, but why not put some of the dragons/gods on an overlapping timer so that no guild could possibly camp all of them at once?

Well spawning them all at once would solve this.

Even if the camping guilds over-recruited to compensate you would see many more wipes due to only having 15 in zone versus the 30-50 man zergs that go on now. Also you would see more disgruntled members leaving if this were to happen.

It's one thing that keeps getting overlooked and has been mentioned many times before. Every week or two all raid bosses should be spawning at the same time, just like they did on live. THAT IS CLASSIC!

I can pretty much guarantee you that no guild would be able to kill all 6 raid bosses simultaneously. They will have to pick 1, maybe 2 targets tops. But since other guilds would also be there they would not be able to spread themselves too thin for fear of a wipe which would mean they would loose their shot.

I'm not going to say the phrase that I've been beating to death in the past but you know what I'm getting at. Just respawn the damn raid bosses at once. The way it's always been on live.