My America

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Let's toss any jury that wrongly convicts someone to prison in for an equal amount of time too?

How about the judicial system simply addresses the fact that in many states it holds ridiculously low standards of transparency and accountability?

Serving time is not the same as getting killed. As bad as it must be to serve 10 years in jail when youre not guilty, certainly you can agree that its not as bad as dying?

If judges knew that if they sentence someone to death and its a wrongful conviction, they could face the same punishment in return, how many judges would push the button?

Of course i dont support the death penalty, im just trying to paint a picture.

[Alawen Everywhere]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Serving time is not the same as getting killed. As bad as it must be to serve 10 years in jail when youre not guilty, certainly you can agree that its not as bad as dying?

If judges knew that if they sentence someone to death and its a wrongful conviction, they could face the same punishment in return, how many judges would push the button?

Of course i dont support the death penalty, im just trying to paint a picture.

Personally, I'll take lethal injection over gang rape.

[ShadowWulf]

Originally Posted by Alawen Everywhere [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Personally, I'll take lethal injection over gang rape.

Its not so much rape as violent death. Marked men do not last very long in general pop.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Serving time is not the same as getting killed. As bad as it must be to serve 10 years in jail when youre not guilty, certainly you can agree that its not as bad as dying?

What, to Siberia? Heh no way. They gotta start the civil war first before we go peacefully… or I mean pry our guns from our cold dead hands. I think that would no doubt spill into Canada and Mexico as well. I mean even yesterday, they were trying to strike down our second amendment rights again; they want us to be more like Europe or it’s lackey Canada. So they (these globalists) try to set up laws to make our rights illegal, then to imprison us thinking we’ll just play along. Too many people will choose death and victory though, that’s a fact. We are not Canada and we have no love for the UN as has been exonerated in this thread. But for now it’s upheld, thought far from a 9-0 vote it should be, so for now…

So no, guilty or not, it does not matter. There is a rule of law and there is wrongful law. In the end, the death rate is 100% no matter what, applies to each person. Canada should stand up for it's own rights, choose liberty. I know it wont though, it'll only slip further, so it's a wasted breath and no one bothers to say it. Lots of big mouths to say against the US though, lots of hot air to spare. Is it 1984 yet?

[ShadowWulf]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

So no, guilty or not, it does not matter. There is a rule of law and there is wrongful law. In the end, the death rate is 100% no matter what, applies to each person. Canada should stand up for it's own rights, choose liberty. I know it wont though, it'll only slip further, so it's a wasted breath and no one bothers to say it. Lots of big mouths to say against the US though, lots of hot air to spare. Is it 1984 yet?

What IS liberty? I am rather interested in your definition.

[Erasong]

interesting clip from an old new york times article. its a few paragraphs but worth the read. I am not in favor of the death penalty. I feel NO person is beyond redemption. Even for the most brutal crimes. Not saying that its easy or that we should be lenient, just saying it should never be ruled out entirely. Basically, i feel our entire justice system is itself fundamentally flawed. Privatizing prisons is terrible plain and simple. Profiting off of crimes as a way of life is as deplorable as commiting them. Here goes.




But from inside the criminal justice system, the whole debate about the death penalty can sometimes seem like a distraction. The reality is that for every person on death row, there are many more who will die before completing their sentences. They will die alone in their cells or in the prison yard. They will die from jailhouse violence or natural causes hastened by stressful conditions and substandard medical care.



The main causes of these virtual death sentences are three-strikes laws and mandatory minimum sentencing. Because of them, more and more people receive prison terms of 20 or 30 years or life with no chance of parole. In California, there are inmates serving life sentences for petty theft, receiving stolen property or possession of marijuana for sale. All over this country governments are spending more and more money on aging inmates - creating entire geriatric wards for prisoners no longer able to walk or talk, let alone maim or kill.



Long sentences are not rare. The next case I am likely to take to trial carries a mandatory minimum sentence of 15 years to life. Why? Because my client is charged with possessing more than four ounces of cocaine. Just about every public defender I know has a horror story about a client who was the victim of a long mandatory sentence. Almost no one else remembers these prisoners. They do not face the needle or the electric chair, so there is no debate about them.



Because of the complexity and the potential punishment, defendants in death penalty cases are in some jurisdictions afforded better than average lawyers and greater than average resources. Many appellate courts look more closely at a case when the defendant has been sentenced to die. And yet we still make mistakes - not a few, but many. In Illinois, there were more innocent death row inmates exonerated than guilty ones put to death. There is no reason to think the error rate is any lower in cases that receive less scrutiny

[mitic]

according to amnesty international, 90% of official death sentences have been executed worldwide (2009) in

#1: china
#2. iran
#3. irak
#4. saudi arabia
#5. usa
#6. yemen

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by ShadowWulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What IS liberty? I am rather interested in your definition.

Liberty is what they have in Iraq, but we don’t have here… or little of. Liberty is, for instance, the ability to bear arms at any time and any place, loaded, so to defend ones friends, family and neighbors. In Iraq they can pretty much carry full-auto assault most anyplace they go. In the US you are lucky to have a semi-auto from before the ban, and locked up. In Canada… lol like 4% have a handgun.

Liberty is basically, in this case, having the ability to meet your obligation to others, by your own free will and choosing, by whatever means to whatever ends. Personal firearms is something that needs to be removed before a government can take all freedoms away from the people when it wills to; but it is government which should not be free. Yes liberty is much more, but this answer is specific to my post that you were replying to. For the broader understanding of our Liberty in the US, one needs to read the US Constitution… w/o special interpretation but literal. The founders had it right, as well as could be governed by man at least.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Daywolf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Liberty is what they have in Iraq, but we don’t have here… or little of. Liberty is, for instance, the ability to bear arms at any time and any place, loaded, so to defend ones friends, family and neighbors. In Iraq they can pretty much carry full-auto assault most anyplace they go. In the US you are lucky to have a semi-auto from before the ban, and locked up. In Canada… lol like 4% have a handgun.

Liberty is basically, in this case, having the ability to meet your obligation to others, by your own free will and choosing, by whatever means to whatever ends. Personal firearms is something that needs to be removed before a government can take all freedoms away from the people when it wills to; but it is government which should not be free. Yes liberty is much more, but this answer is specific to my post that you were replying to. For the broader understanding of our Liberty in the US, one needs to read the US Constitution… w/o special interpretation but literal. The founders had it right, as well as could be governed by man at least.

Im still struggling with this issue. I used to be a staunch supporter of weapon bans of any kind, until i was attacked 3 times in 6 months in the subway. Now i carry a knife. I differ in that from most people from the left i guess.

But that leaves also other areas with big question marks. Like people showing up with automatic rifles at rallies of the kind i join sometimes in Canada, just to intimidate people. Columbine doesnt happen often in Canada because its alot harder to get access to these kinds of weapons. So im still struggling about where i stand on this issue.

Liberty is also for me freedom of association and freedom of speech, freedom of movement which we are seeing being repressed in lots of western countries at this point in time. All the simple things that are in the american constitution, canadian charter of rights and freedoms, UN declaration of human rights, thats liberty to me. Its more than that, but those are the basics.

[Daywolf]

Originally Posted by ShadowWulf [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What IS liberty? I am rather interested in your definition.

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Im still struggling with this issue. I used to be a staunch supporter of weapon bans of any kind, until i was attacked 3 times in 6 months in the subway. Now i carry a knife. I differ in that from most people from the left i guess.

But that leaves also other areas with big question marks. Like people showing up with automatic rifles at rallies of the kind i join sometimes in Canada, just to intimidate people. Columbine doesnt happen often in Canada because its alot harder to get access to these kinds of weapons. So im still struggling about where i stand on this issue.

Liberty is also for me freedom of association and freedom of speech, freedom of movement which we are seeing being repressed in lots of western countries at this point in time. All the simple things that are in the american constitution, canadian charter of rights and freedoms, UN declaration of human rights, thats liberty to me. Its more than that, but those are the basics.

I wouldn't say it's a left or right issue regarding gun ownership. I'm not sure why it would matter.

But to put it in general about liberty, it is the conduit to freedom. So like a sailor has the freedom to go ashore and get himself a prostitute, but only at liberty of doing so. There may be freedoms, but limited liberty to exercise those freedoms... to a point of making it not free any longer.

And yes, I have been assaulted a number of times, I grew up in LA. I think that when we live a sheltered existence, we disassociate ourselves with reality; to what is really going on in the world around us. It should effect us when others come to harm, especially if they could have prevented it. Cops cant be there for us at all times, but I can be there for my neighbor, and have.