First Aggro + 15

[Skope]

Originally Posted by Akame [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

But without GM enforcement there are no punishments that will actually give the population enough of an aversion to not following the rules to actually stick to it. At least picking GM enforcement that is already in the original play nice rule set means we aren't creating any type of punishments that didn't exist in classic EQ.

What don't you get? the GM's don't want to intervene! they don't want to babysit! And they've said it numerous times before! The reason we even have rules is so they don't have to sift through countless petitions. They're busy with programming, handling bugs and trying to catch cheats. The last thing they would want is to babysit us raiders in a zone. The current 'play nice' rules would do what exactly? They're a deterrent, but when you have to watch fraps, sift through countless of screenshots and still don't have enough proof to pinpoint a responsible party then all the parties involved are essentially screwed.

[Akame]

Originally Posted by Skope [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

What don't you get? the GM's don't want to intervene! they don't want to babysit! And they've said it numerous times before! The reason we even have rules is so they don't have to sift through countless petitions. They're busy with programming, handling bugs and trying to catch cheats. The last thing they would want is to babysit us raiders in a zone. The current 'play nice' rules would do what exactly? They're a deterrent, but when you have to watch fraps, sift through countless of screenshots and still don't have enough proof to pinpoint a responsible party then all the parties involved are essentially screwed.

All parties are essentially screwed either way then, there is not enough populace interaction on these boards to merit the community blacklisting that was effective in the old world, and without GM's that are willing to enforce rules, then you might as well just keep the current plan and camp your mobs for four days, since near as I can tell there is actual (imagine that) GM enforced repercussions.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

More senseless crap.

You're funny, you must be a stand up comedian in real life. That or you're completely ignorant of the way the world works. I'm betting the second. You still don't get it do you. Everyone on this board only represents a minority of the population of the server. You can shout here all day about how your opinion matters more than others because of what you've done on the server and No. One. Cares.

The truth is that only a handful of the players who post (who are already only a handful of the players who play) even pay attention to the raiding populace threads and topics. And none of that handful is agreeing with you, and I'm guessing that the others that don't pay attention to the thread, and the larger collective that doesn't even care for our existence would not agree with your assumptions that you know whats best for them solely on the fact that you play more than they do and are in a raiding guild.

So sit down, shut up, and help US, come up with a solid system that is best for everyone. Because if you don't, there will be no focus in this minority and without focus and a goal, nothing is going to get done and you will still be camping 15+ in a zone for four days straight by the time Velious rolls around.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You couldn't just zone into Fear and see if Cazic was up. I don't think you realize it, but back in the day you couldn't actually track Innoruuk from the zone line either. You didn't know that did you. SOE wasn't stupid.

When guilds are clearing trash regularly (which currently happens here, and happened all the time back on live too) you don't exactly need to hug the zl to track do you? Trash respawns? Mulch it down with a group and go back to tracking. Or did you maybe forget that is how it was done? Triggered trash respawn? Don't even need to track to know the target's up.

Keep splooging everywhere, you'll be sure to hit something. Eventually.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

When guilds are clearing trash regularly (which currently happens here, and happened all the time back on live too) you don't exactly need to hug the zl to track do you? Trash respawns? Mulch it down with a group and go back to tracking. Or did you maybe forget that is how it was done? Triggered trash respawn? Don't even need to track to know the target's up.

Keep splooging everywhere, you'll be sure to hit something. Eventually.

I don't know about other guilds but I know that we regularly clear the zone to gear up members and have fun for a few hours between camping sessions. Then we just chill till the next respawn. Kinda how it works already \o/

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Aadill [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I don't know about other guilds but I know that we regularly clear the zone to gear up members and have fun for a few hours between camping sessions. Then we just chill till the next respawn. Kinda how it works already \o/

Precisely my point. Trash is down, trackers will do what they do.

[Aadill]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Precisely my point. Trash is down, trackers will do what they do.

That sorta makes any anti-camping raid rulesets moot, though, as you'd have to keep zones clear and would be sitting in them anyway.

Honestly I feel this is the first time that this has really been touched upon. SolB and Permafrost are fairly safe in comparison to a properly tuned PoHate and PoFear. Camping will happen there because it can. Due to the nature of the mobs in the planes, killing to some extent is necessary, lest your information gathering suffers greatly from literally not being able to survive long enough to check track more than once (alternative methods of rogues/monks aside).

As it stands, camping mobs is dragged out and perhaps boring but is easily mitigated by camping things like Efreeti, killing trash mobs for armor loot, or surviving horrendous lag. The majority of the drama comes from things like suspicious zone crashes, trains with no name, crowding, and the seemingly unfairness of raid targets being shared. The only things being "fixed" by another raid set is the seemingly unfair part.

Anyone can lay claim to a mob if they devote the time to camp it and/or capitalize on mistakes of others. That's why the current system works. I do not believe this particular system presented here will work because relations will become even more heated. I would expect the raid zones to be more bare than they already are... at least multiple guilds are starting to come in and clear zones for loot that other guilds no longer need. Camping would still have to exist in this system, and any level of devotion to being a raid force is more based on a /random moreso than it is now, as it would be based just on sheer luck in aggroing first. Expect a lot of people to get mad.

[astarothel]

Trash is currently set to 8 hours here? Still plenty of time to carry on playing as normal. There's plenty of groups willing to do trash for trash drops sake. This makes a tracker's life a lot easier.

[G13]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Precisely my point. Trash is down, trackers will do what they do.

SOE had a solution for this too. Guilds still have to work to re clear stuff at least. Be active, ect.

If Fear was clear and CT spawned, the entire zone would instantly repopulate.

Wouldn't that make it interesting. Wouldn't that keep people on their toes. Like I said, you guys claim you want competition, yet you still want to rely on things that cut out the competition and make it a camping game. Easy tracking of raid mobs, especially in the planes, make this a camping game. People just hanging out waiting for the spawns. No real danger involved.

Roaming mobs at the entrance to hateplane would be awesome

Fear completely respawning when CT spawned, regardless how many mobs were up or down. Instant Fear re pop. Put some danger back in the planes instead of the picnic it currently is.

There are many ideas out there to shake things up. Personally if you guys really want a "race to the mob" game it could be done, but it would require a radical raid ruleset that would require an honor system on each guild's part to follow it. Won't happen though.