First Aggro + 15

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Shit.

Would having an IB or DA tag above my head make you take me any more seriously? No, not really.

Either tag above my head would just result in the other side flinging shit for that. You'd accuse me of being an IB lapdog for preferring druid tracking, and then now you shit on me lumping me in with guilds that don't put forth an effort to call timers or put in time.

Make up your fucking mind.

I put forth a raid proposal that you came out and said you thought could work (Suicide Kings), and then here you are pissing all over me when I was disproving FFA's claim shortened raid target windows would free up 85% of the time from camping.

Make up your fucking mind.

You cry about what IB did for months when druid tracking was always done on live. Why? Because if your guild didn't do it, you'd never know when a target was up. Abnormal camping methods are a tracking druid? Claim camping is inevitable, then say that there is no difference between one person tracking and dropping fifteen campers in a zone. There's about 14 people difference last I checked.

You are out of your fucking mind.

Keep thinking IB is terrible and solely responsible for the raiding situation and that DA's shit doesn't stink. If you exclude every guild except IB and DA, that makes DA 50% of the problem.

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

It really annoys me when I see these noobs who have never done a damn thing or even TRY to kill a mob come in here and try to dictate new raid rules. Or some scrub recruit from one guild or another try and dictate shit. They don't have a clue.

A clue is not required to see that the current state of raiding is absurd.
A guild could have competed with IB when it comes to mobilization if they got their shit together. Some in DA even admitted that they couldn't compete mobilization-wise with IB in another thread. The evolution of raiding DA chose, camping, killed competition more than a single tracking druid ever did or could have.

Sitting 15+ people in a zone (or more if raid people target windows are shortened) and waiting to see which group's bards dissonance magically aggros a spawning mob first doesn't take any sort of skill, or any sort of finesse. It's not even competition, it's just whichever bard takes it to the face first.

I play to compete. I will join a raiding guild that makes an impact when I feel that reasonable competition is possible. Right now it's a fucking sausagefest at the safespot, and as I stated earlier DA is 50% of the problem -- stop trying to make it seem like this is all IB's fault.

[G13]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Would having an IB or DA tag above my head make you take me any more seriously? No, not really.

Either tag above my head would just result in the other side flinging shit for that. You'd accuse me of being an IB lapdog for preferring druid tracking, and then now you shit on me lumping me in with guilds that don't put forth an effort to call timers or put in time.

I never accused you of anything genius. I wasn't even talking directly to you in my post. Your quote was just another example of the stupidity that is this thread, and other threads just like it. I was actually agreeing with you. These people are bickering over semantics that all lead to the same conclusion. Camping.

I put forth a raid proposal that you came out and said you thought could work (Suicide Kings), and then here you are pissing all over me when I was disproving FFA's claim shortened raid target windows would free up 85% of the time from camping.

I never said SK could work. You still don't get it and you never will. No proposal is ever going to work. Get that through your head. Here, let me make it simple.

FFA = camping cluserfuck. KS clusterfuck. Training clusterfuck

Current Rules = Camping clusterfuck

This first 15 to aggro = completely exploitable. Competing guilds camping the spawn point with bard AOE. Rogean called to every boss fight to determine "who got first aggro". Yea sounds like a fun.

This COULD be an interesting raid scene if the other guilds would actually DO something instead of farming froggy crowns and planar trash for once. It's like nobody has read the rules or wants to devise ways to compete in the current system. You all act like you have to camp or something to get mobs. You don't. You just have to be there when they spawn. You can call timers. You can roll call. No camping is needed. Nobody does it though. They don't even try. They don't check on other guild's positions and try to take advantage of a situation when they make a mistake. They don't roll call. They don't call timers. Apply pressure. Nothing.

None of you jackasses truly understand what Nilbog has been saying. Make up your own raiding system that is manageable. I.E one that doesn't involve Nilbog. FFA would involve Nilbog every time a mob spawned. The current system for the most part leave the GMs out of it apparently. Nobody wants to think outside the box though. You all want to create a raiding system that is hindered by the glaring flaws of the game. That is never going to work. Go ahead and speak of the good ole days. it doesn't change the fact that EQ end game is pathetic and broken beyond repair. As MMO players, we've far outgrown this type of game with such limited content. It's painfully obvious.

It could be fixed, but it would take radical ideas that every guild would have to agree on for the overall health of the server. We could create a system that is competitive, fun, and challenging. Won't happen though. Want to know why? Because people in IB and DA just want to kill mobs and get their loot. They don't care how. How doesn't matter. All that matters is they get their kills. I'm not saying anything positive or negative in relation to that. It is just the simple truth. That's why I said before the only way shit is going to change is if DA and IB create new raid rules. Because it's FACT.

You cry about what IB did for months when druid tracking was always done on live. Why? Because if your guild didn't do it, you'd never know when a target was up. Abnormal camping methods are a tracking druid? Claim camping is inevitable, then say that there is no difference between one person tracking and dropping fifteen campers in a zone. There's about 14 people difference last I checked.

14 people is nothing. You are acting like this is a major feat for 2 groups to log out in WC and get ported or something. Seriously, you people need to stop with this shit. It is not some insane mobilization skill to use a potion of the frost or log out at a spire/ring. End that charade please. You are not some super skilled mobilization guild because you port people from a druid ring in WC.

I don't remember crying about IB doing anything anyways. I stated the facts. Not every server had a rotating druid with batphone either. Sure there were some trackers, but we didn't have mass txt messaging like we do today. It wasn't the norm. It was more like, go check the spawn, if you could even get in the zone. You couldn't just zone into Fear and see if Cazic was up. I don't think you realize it, but back in the day you couldn't actually track Innoruuk from the zone line either. You didn't know that did you. SOE wasn't stupid.

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/db/zones.html?zstrat=68

This guy remembers it like I do.

I know that in the past I could not track Inny from zone in. If I remember oorrectly, Inny was only trackable from the tier 2 area

Which is absolutely correct. Don't want people camping Inny? Don't allow him to be tracked from zone in.

I actually think removing tracking in Hate would make it interesting. Sure you could probably stick a rogue there, but put banshees up there all the way so they can't sneak over there. There are a lot of things that could be done to shake things up. Make them interesting, but I doubt it will ever happen. If all these guilds supposedly want "competition" I would imagine they would be completely for these types of ideas. But like I said before, you guys just want your mobs. You just troll up the forums whining about 15 people camping instead of 1 to try and feel better about yourselves. We both know the only thing that mattes is who killed what.

Keep thinking IB is terrible and solely responsible for the raiding situation and that DA's shit doesn't stink. If you exclude every guild except IB and DA, that makes DA 50% of the problem.

I don't think IB is terrible. You're being defensive because you know there is truth in what I say. On the contrary, DA and IB are the only two guilds doing anything on this server worthwhile. The rest of them are useless.

A clue is not required to see that the current state of raiding is absurd.
A guild could have competed with IB when it comes to mobilization if they got their shit together. Some in DA even admitted that they couldn't compete mobilization-wise with IB in another thread. The evolution of raiding DA chose, camping, killed competition more than a single tracking druid ever did or could have.

DA has beaten IB mobilization wise many times. Stop pretending like this isn't true. When IB wiped themselves in Hate, DA was there in force within 5 minutes. IB didn't bow out with dignity either. They cried to the GMs to hand them the zone. The people who wiped them. Vittra, Starklen, Gwence, and a handful of others lied to their officers and then they lied to the GMs to save their sorry asses. In Sol B you got beat by mobilization. In Fear you got beat after you wiped yourselves last week. Then your members proceeded to bug CT to crash the zone. Cyrius had to come in and kill both mobs. DA had claim and their pick of the mob, but nope, IB had to crash the zone.

I wonder why. Wouldn't have anything to do with resetting his loot tables right?

Like I said many times. Any smart guild leader knows that it's better to have 15 in the zone and a guaranteed claim that 1 druid. You can whine about it all you want, but if the lone druid method was better than what we currently have, IB would still be doing it wouldn't they.

Sitting 15+ people in a zone (or more if raid people target windows are shortened) and waiting to see which group's bards dissonance magically aggros a spawning mob first doesn't take any sort of skill, or any sort of finesse. It's not even competition, it's just whichever bard takes it to the face first.

Nothing in this game takes any sort of skill. Get that through your thick head. That's the entire point.

I play to compete. I will join a raiding guild that makes an impact when I feel that reasonable competition is possible. Right now it's a fucking sausagefest at the safespot, and as I stated earlier DA is 50% of the problem -- stop trying to make it seem like this is all IB's fault.

Yea this sounds really heroic. You play to compete or something. There are a lot of people that have been "competing" here a lot longer than you have. IB and DA are not the problem. They are devising strategies and tactics based upon the current raid rules. Scoreboard is all that counts. DA never even wrote these rules or had a hand in creating them. Like it or not, it's a strategic game. Too bad EQ is such a broken game that any scenario, or raid rule will be nothing more than an unspoken rotation at the end of the day.

Originally Posted by Akame [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Dumesh and I have been in and leading raiding guilds that raided 5+ days a week since Kunark. .

Nobody gives a fuck what Akame and Dumesh did 10 years ago. Every mfker here has been in a top end raiding guild. The best of the best. You have people from DROW, FOH, Triton, ect. in both DA and IB. You haven't done jack shit here anyways so your opinion is worthless. Do me a favor. Compete with the current guilds. Lead a raid force and rattle the cage a little bit. Use some strategy and tactics. Clear all the trash and engage Vox within 30 minutes and win with 2 guilds breathing down your neck. Kill the drakes on tier 2 in Hate and engage Innoruuk in 20 minutes. Do a WW break in Fear and then clear, buff, pull, and kill Draco in 30 minutes. Then you can come back here and pretend like you know wtf you are talking about.

[Dumesh Uhl'Belk]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You haven't done jack shit here anyways so your opinion is worthless. Do me a favor. Compete with the current guilds. Lead a raid force and rattle the cage a little bit. Use some strategy and tactics. Clear all the trash and engage Vox within 30 minutes and win with 2 guilds breathing down your neck. Kill the drakes on tier 2 in Hate and engage Innoruuk in 20 minutes. Do a WW break in Fear and then clear, buff, pull, and kill Draco in 30 minutes. Then you can come back here and pretend like you know wtf you are talking about.

I have no expectations that my resume on P99 will do anything to slow down your drivel. However, since some are starting to make assumptions about my record or knowledge here on P99, I will state some facts.

I am a member of Divinity.

I am not an officer of Divinity.

Some members of Divinity like my proposal.

Some members of Divinity don't like my proposal.

Some members of Divinity prefer a rotation.

I do NOT speak for Divinity in any way. I am expressing my own reasoning, thoughts, and opinions.

On P99, I have been an active raider for a combined 7 weeks or so. Most of that was before the current status quo but after the first with 15 in the zone rules were hashed out.

In that time, I have participated in 2 Nagafen kills, 2 Maestro kills, 2 Phinny kills, and hours of planar clearing as practice. I have also been a part of failed races for Vox. I have 10 pieces of Umbral armor, and I have tanked Maestro, Naggy, and Phinny for most of 3 of those 6 kills.

Those numbers don't make me better than anyone else, but they do mean that I have a dog in the fight, and that I have as much right and qualification as anyone to make posts and arguments on this subject. Also, IB and DA are not the only guilds on this server with former members of FoH, Afterlife, LoS, Triton, etc... so you can drop that shit too.

On a more positive note, I'm happy to see the traffic in this thread is staying high. I will have more responses to points made later, but I have to head out for the night.

[Starklen]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Vittra, Starklen, Gwence, and a handful of others lied to their officers and then they lied to the GMs to save their sorry asses.

You agroed clerics that cast AOEs and placed them right on top of me which resulted in my death. Are you seriously still in denial about that?

[G13]

Originally Posted by Starklen [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You agroed clerics that cast AOEs and placed them right on top of me which resulted in my death. Are you seriously still in denial about that?

You're freaking retarded.

And a horrible fucking liar.

I watched you idiots wipe your guild. Stop being such a pussy. Be a man and admit your fucking mistakes. Don't lie like a little punk and try to pass shit off on other people. You, Vittra, Gwence, and a few others pulled shit. Someone got feared. Chain aggro from bard song. More mobs INC = dead IB. Learn the game mechanics.

Don't make me bust out the SS where your officers admit Vittra was pulling and somehow somebody "planted" mobs on the East wall to try and justify you nooblets wiping out your entire guild. I find it embarrassing that you would lie to your officers and a GM like that to cover your ass.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

SOE had a solution for this too. Guilds still have to work to re clear stuff at least. Be active, ect.

Full respawns on Fear with CT like in classic? Yeah, it'd suck to break, but after he's dead it'd just be time to deploy the trackers again. I doubt you'd see much change, other than a break and the extra trash clearing.

[Starklen]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You're freaking retarded.

And a horrible fucking liar.

I watched you idiots wipe your guild. Stop being such a pussy. Be a man and admit your fucking mistakes. Don't lie like a little punk and try to pass shit off on other people. You, Vittra, Gwence, and a few others pulled shit. Someone got feared. Chain aggro from bard song. More mobs INC = dead IB. Learn the game mechanics.

Don't make me bust out the SS where your officers admit Vittra was pulling and somehow somebody "planted" mobs on the East wall to try and justify you nooblets wiping out your entire guild. I find it embarrassing that you would lie to your officers and a GM like that to cover your ass.

Please watch your trains so you don't kill people who are FD. Thanks.

[guineapig]

Originally Posted by G13 [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Nobody gives a fuck what Akame and Dumesh did 10 years ago. Every mfker here has been in a top end raiding guild. The best of the best. You have people from DROW, FOH, Triton, ect. in both DA and IB. You haven't done jack shit here anyways so your opinion is worthless. Do me a favor. Compete with the current guilds. Lead a raid force and rattle the cage a little bit. Use some strategy and tactics. Clear all the trash and engage Vox within 30 minutes and win with 2 guilds breathing down your neck. Kill the drakes on tier 2 in Hate and engage Innoruuk in 20 minutes. Do a WW break in Fear and then clear, buff, pull, and kill Draco in 30 minutes. Then you can come back here and pretend like you know wtf you are talking about.

You don't know what the fuck you're talking about dude.

Besides not having a shot at Inny yet, we have done everything on your list. Most of it before your guild even existed. You're not special, you're not leet.

I wonder if you're even an original member of your guild. If not then you are just riding on the coattails of what the people that came before you accomplished.

The accomplishment or recruiting all the people that are the most obsessed with the game into a single guild really doesn't say much of anything other than that. The content here isn't difficult, anyone who tells you otherwise is doing something wrong. It all comes down to how much time you want to spend on one thing versus another.

I don't care what you do man, but when you start bashing other guilds with some misguided sense of superiority I'm going to call you out on it.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Sorry to get off topic.

In any case this is the OP's idea and has nothing to do with what others in the guild want to see happen on the server. I for one see much merit in his ideas but then I again, I'm not an officer either. Stay on topic or GTFO.

I would like to hear more about the full repop of Fear and Hate. I'm pretty sure Fear used to repop in full when CT spawned on live but I don't know what era this was happening in. Was it Classic or post revamp?

Also, I don't remember Hate being too easy to zone into either on Live but that came after some changes. Was the zone in always a spot that you could just chill at for days on end without aggroing anything?

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The fact that you actually used it as anything but a joke is laughable.

When mentioned, the new proposed variance would have been +/- 6 hours, rather than the flat +6 as was later amended.

In total that is 12 hours of variance per week, per target.

Since you got your panties in a bunch over the overlap, lets give it a base value of 1.42 with 168 hours in a week vs 72 hours of potential variance.

Variance included it clocks in at 41.76 hours. That's a smidge under 25% of the total hours in the week. If you assume that the current state of camping is 100% of the time due with the pre-existing variances, thats still 75%.
But wait, you stated the person's playing time, not the total hours in a week, so the actual value I've given of 168 hours is too high. This means that the actual percentage is going to be 75% time camped at best. Less than 25% of the time you'll be able to 'play' your character...

What was your line again?

Originally Posted by girth [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The issue is not being able to play 85% of the time because you have to be the first 15 in a zone to claim a boss.

Weren't you the one giving _me_ shit for pulling numbers out of the air?

Your claim on current situation: 85% of time not able to play.
Proposed situation with +/- 6 hours: >75% of time not able to play.

Less than 10%. Oh god, I am so glad I can play my character so much more than before!!!