My America

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And your country is Canada. Looks Like Alawen 1, Taxi 0 from here.

The only place i could see myself living in the states is NYC or california, maybe Colorado as i think its one of the progressive places in the US. But having visited NYC in 2009 and seen how segregated it still is, i still prefer Montreal. You have to live here to appreciate it, NYC pretends to be a melting pot while everyone stays segregated in their own neighboorhoods.

My friend is of vietnamese origin, raised in Montreal and living in NYC. He says each time he comes back to Montreal its like a 1000 pound weight off his shoulders, because he says in NYC even the asians are segregated between themselves, cambodian Laotian, etc... and there is lots of racism there.

Single-payer healthcare system like someone mentioned, the list is long why i prefer living in Montreal rather than in the states.

I dont mean to turn this into a USA vs Canada flamefest but its another proof of your rose-tinted glasses, you thinking everyone obviously would prefer to live in the US rather than in their own country of origin.

Not to say i hate everything American right? Or else i wouldnt have listed democracy now!, wouldnt listen to american music, etc etc etc... The fact that i have to specify that im not "anti-american" is kind of telling of whats the atmosphere right now in the US, like you have to babytalk americans into reality. Or just slam them in the face with it, which is what i did in my first post.

I thought that what was annoying in your post is the misinformed naiveté of it, the HOO-RAH wrestling match USA USA USA! vibe to it, which is why i chose the slamming option.

[Erasong]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only place i could see myself living in the states is NYC or california, maybe Colorado as i think its one of the progressive places in the US. But having visited NYC in 2009 and seen how segregated it still is, i still prefer Montreal. You have to live here to appreciate it, NYC pretends to be a melting pot while everyone stays segregated in their own neighboorhoods.

My friend is of vietnamese origin, raised in Montreal and living in NYC. He says each time he comes back to Montreal its like a 1000 pound weight off his shoulders, because he says in NYC even the asians are segregated between themselves, cambodian Laotian, etc... and there is lots of racism there.

Single-payer healthcare system like someone mentioned, the list is long why i prefer living in Montreal rather than in the states.

I dont mean to turn this into a USA vs Canada flamefest but its another proof of your rose-tinted glasses, you thinking everyone obviously would prefer to live in the US rather than in their own country of origin.

Not to say i hate everything American right? Or else i wouldnt have listed democracy now!, wouldnt listen to american music, etc etc etc... The fact that i have to specify that im not "anti-american" is kind of telling of whats the atmosphere right now in the US, like you have to babytalk americans into reality. Or just slam them in the face with it, which is what i did in my first post.

I thought that what was annoying in your post is the misinformed naiveté of it, the HOO-RAH wrestling match USA USA USA! vibe to it, which is why i chose the slamming option.

I got more of a feel of "loving a disfunctional family member even tho you know they are flawed becuase, hey, they're family". Nothing at all wrong with national pride. It didnt seem to boarder on the fanatical to me which would put me in the same boat as you if it were. BTW I live in NYC and I wouldnt call it racist here. I'd say prejudiced but not racist. There is a subtle difference.

[Xenephex]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

The only place i could see myself living in the states is NYC or california, maybe Colorado as i think its one of the progressive places in the US. But having visited NYC in 2009 and seen how segregated it still is, i still prefer Montreal. You have to live here to appreciate it, NYC pretends to be a melting pot while everyone stays segregated in their own neighboorhoods.

My friend is of vietnamese origin, raised in Montreal and living in NYC. He says each time he comes back to Montreal its like a 1000 pound weight off his shoulders, because he says in NYC even the asians are segregated between themselves, cambodian Laotian, etc... and there is lots of racism there.

Single-payer healthcare system like someone mentioned, the list is long why i prefer living in Montreal rather than in the states.

I dont mean to turn this into a USA vs Canada flamefest but its another proof of your rose-tinted glasses, you thinking everyone obviously would prefer to live in the US rather than in their own country of origin.

Not to say i hate everything American right? Or else i wouldnt have listed democracy now!, wouldnt listen to american music, etc etc etc... The fact that i have to specify that im not "anti-american" is kind of telling of whats the atmosphere right now in the US, like you have to babytalk americans into reality. Or just slam them in the face with it, which is what i did in my first post.

I thought that what was annoying in your post is the misinformed naiveté of it, the HOO-RAH wrestling match USA USA USA! vibe to it, which is why i chose the slamming option.

I'm the one who brought up Canada, and it was intended as a joke, but if you want to go there... let's get real about it.

I grew up more or less at the latitude of Montreal; we had no racial problems where I lived either. Of course we only had one race. The nearest black people at that time were about 100 miles due south and playing football for Vince Lombardi. Oddly enough, I currently live just outside Atlanta in a small town that has been identified as one of the most ethnically diverse small towns on the planet.

In a town of around 7,000, students at the local high school were born in 54 different countries and nearly half the population is foreign born. I find this immensely satisfying, because this is a country built on (and made great by) immigration and diversity. Yes, every wave of immigrants has been met with resentment and mis-understanding; that is a part of our history too, but in the end they have always been absorbed into the great melting pot and made this a better place.

There's is no denying that this country has done some bad things, both in the past and recently. Above all, slavery and the subsequent decades of Jim Crow and segregation are an enormous shame virtually unmatched by any other civilized country. And we have sometimes behaved heavy handedly and ignorantly in our foreign affairs.

But, we have done good things as well. We have fought ably and at great sacrifice in two world wars and, as the phrase goes, never asked for more land than was sufficient to bury our dead. And our dead are buried in great numbers in places like Normandy.

Alongside, it should be noted, many Canadians, who fought as ably and in disproportionate numbers in both those wars. But, the history of the first of those wars (from Canada's perspective) highlights something about your country that ought to give you pause. Because as much criticism as can be rightfully laid at the feet of the U.S. in regards to our racial and ethnic difficulties, you still have to wonder at the long history of a country who really only ever had two significant ethnic groups.

Two groups who are as closely related as almost any pair of distinct countries (remember the Normans); two nationalities separated orginally only by a narrow channel and who have had considerable interaction with each other since Europe became civilized.

And yet those two groups, in comparison to the multitude of cultures in the U.S. have been unable to get along for the majority of the country's history and still maintain considerable enmity on some issues. The vast majority of your population is of European descent and the overwhelming majority of that is still from France or the British isles, and you still have trouble getting along. Explain that please, especially in light of your criticism of the U.S.

You can choose to participate or not participate in foreign conflicts and have been able to remain free from any concerns about foreign military intervention in your country in no small part because of the presence of a large and very powerful nation immediately to your south, with which you have a rock solid relationship. Who the hell is going to attack Canada when they know they will face the wrath of the U.S. in response?

You derive considerable benefit from your geographical location in terms of our culture and your extremely favored status as a trading partner, and face few of the pressures on the international front that we do.

And you feel free to sit up there with your one Vietnamese neighbor (I couldn't throw a rock from my house without risking hitting a Vietnamese or a Somalian) and judge us. Judge away, my friend; nobody here is going to stop you, but hold off on the frickin' fascist accusations and accompanying rhetoric. We've done a little too much on that front to deserve that one.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I grew up more or less at the latitude of Montreal; we had no racial problems where I lived either. Of course we only had one race. The nearest black people at that time were about 100 miles due south and playing football for Vince Lombardi.

That's Quebec. Urban south western Ontario is a completely different ballgame.

[Xenephex]

Originally Posted by astarothel [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

That's Quebec. Urban south western Ontario is a completely different ballgame.

I said same latitude - I was referring to the upper peninsula of Michigan in the 1950's and 60's.

[astarothel]

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

I said same latitude - I was referring to the upper peninsula of Michigan in the 1950's and 60's.

My bad. Trying to forumwhore while exping my enchanter.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Alongside, it should be noted, many Canadians, who fought as ably and in disproportionate numbers in both those wars. But, the history of the first of those wars (from Canada's perspective) highlights something about your country that ought to give you pause. Because as much criticism as can be rightfully laid at the feet of the U.S. in regards to our racial and ethnic difficulties, you still have to wonder at the long history of a country who really only ever had two significant ethnic groups.

Two groups who are as closely related as almost any pair of distinct countries (remember the Normans); two nationalities separated orginally only by a narrow channel and who have had considerable interaction with each other since Europe became civilized.

And yet those two groups, in comparison to the multitude of cultures in the U.S. have been unable to get along for the majority of the country's history and still maintain considerable enmity on some issues. The vast majority of your population is of European descent and the overwhelming majority of that is still from France or the British isles, and you still have trouble getting along. Explain that please, especially in light of your criticism of the U.S.

Its quite simple actually, the french canadians were Canada's version of black people, although we were not subjected to slavery like blacks were. Montreal in 2010 has lost most of its linguistic animosity where most people are like me, bilingual. Its mostly gone, with uncertainty about if Quebec will ultimately decide to stay within Canada or become sovereign.

Your question lies on a flawed premise, that why couldnt you guys get along? Well thats cause anglos used to tell us to "Speak white" (english) and treated us like shit and economic slaves for a long, long time, so it takes time to heal. I think this is one of the reasons why french canadians are noticeably less racists than some other places in North America, because we know how it is to be oppressed, even though we are "whites" by skin color.

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

You can choose to participate or not participate in foreign conflicts and have been able to remain free from any concerns about foreign military intervention in your country in no small part because of the presence of a large and very powerful nation immediately to your south, with which you have a rock solid relationship. Who the hell is going to attack Canada when they know they will face the wrath of the U.S. in response?

Well, we might now be attacked by terrorist groups because Harper is a little puppet of the US. You say it increases our national security, i say its detrimental to our national security because we are seen more and more as lackeys of the US. All these "gifts" from the US that people dont want. I dont want your fucking protection. If the russians invade (lol) ill pick up a gun and join a militia. Its like profiting and getting protection off a mafia boss, you could argue that there are advantages, but there are also consequences and it can spiral down quickly and blow up in your face.

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

And you feel free to sit up there with your one Vietnamese neighbor (I couldn't throw a rock from my house without risking hitting a Vietnamese or a Somalian) and judge us. Judge away, my friend; nobody here is going to stop you, but hold off on the frickin' fascist accusations and accompanying rhetoric. We've done a little too much on that front to deserve that one.

I worked in a school in Montreal in 1998, thats 12 years ago. We had 84 different nationalities of children at the school. 84. So yea "You canadians with your igloos and maple syrup and hockey rinks and hmmm your 2 nationalities" speel needs a little work on. The haitian community in Montreal alone has 100,000 people, with 3.5 million people living in Montreal. To compare, France, a country with 60 million people (With historical links to Haiti and partly responsible for the sad shape it is in, in 2010), has a community of 80,000.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Montreal

For the fascist part, its just history. The US has supported, armed, trained, supplied fascistic groups/regimes in the rest of the world alot since WW2.

Your country is also in the midst of a disturbing transformation (that is also radiating throughout the western world, another "gift") and its not a given that the US will stay a democratic country. I have been looking to confirm that it is now illegal in the US in 3 states to film police officers while they are on duty. I could give many examples of how the US's democracy is slowly getting flushed down the drain but its late and i dont think im up for it right now, i can elaborate tomorrow if you really want me to. And its not a surprise given the US support and spawning of fascistic regimes around the world for the last 60 years that the chickens are now coming home to roost, like Malcolm X said.

Heres a lecture by Naomi Wolf talking about the disturbing trends that are emerging in America that im referring to if you feel like it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RjALf12PAWc

[Xenephex]

Originally Posted by Taxi [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Your question lies on a flawed premise, that why couldnt you guys get along? Well thats cause anglos used to tell us to "Speak white" (english) and treated us like shit and economic slaves for a long, long time, so it takes time to heal. I think this is one of the reasons why french canadians are noticeably less racists than some other places in North America, because we know how it is to be oppressed, even though we are "whites" by skin color.

So, you're saying that a majority of Canadians are racist (towards people of the same race), but not you or your group.

Gotcha.

[Xenephex]

Oh, and you toss out the Haitian population as if it's an example of your internationalism. Haitians speak French and it is a crappy place that generates a lot of refugees. Where are they gonna go? Cameroon? Switzerland? They're not an example - they are a relatively singular population in Canada for reasons of their language.

[Taxi]

Originally Posted by Xenephex [You must be logged in to view images. Log in or Register.]

Oh, and you toss out the Haitian population as if it's an example of your internationalism. Haitians speak French and it is a crappy place that generates a lot of refugees. Where are they gonna go? Cameroon? Switzerland? They're not an example - they are a relatively singular population in Canada for reasons of their language.

Actually Haitians speak Creole, they have to learn french, a new language to them, although similar in the same way that french and spanish is similar. Only the professional class such as doctors and lawyers speaks french.